Anyone Tune on wideband?

[MrVtec11]

So, I need someone who knows what they are doing for a tune, I need it really soon and badly. Any one able to give me some input or able to help me out let me know!!! Thanks a bunch!

[96gsx]

What are you using for an engine mangment.

[MrVtec11]

For engine management..... Well lets see here, I had it turned by a guy around here and he did a cluster of a job but all I need is someone to run a wideband on my can and then use crome and put a new chip in my p28. geez you guys are fast to reply

[96gsx]

I sit on a computer all day at work..**Sorry, not fimular with Crome..**One of these Honda guys will help you out.**Wideband tuning is pretty easy, just find a fuel AFR mixture/detination tolerance and work off timing adance from there. The hardest part is the application specific software of your enginemangment.

[MrVtec11]

Yea, I hope so, do you know if shelly's does good work, cause I need to get it done fast and I dont want to go over to Intec in seattle but that may be my best bet, thats a long haul for tuning tho. I hope someone can help me out!

[KryptoSol]

One reason i don't use Crome any longer, is due to the fact that the newest versions have a known funky ignition code, and no one can test and confirm that it works like its supposed to, including the dozen or so smart guys that provide this freeware as a hobby.

So why not use a previous stable version? Because, the older versions don't have the fuel modifiers that you NEED for larger injectors, IAT, ECTs, injector offset and such.

There are still tons of people who use Crome without a glitch, but i think its too unstable and many of the "plug-ins" don't get adequte testing before official release. This is my perspective on the software, and this comming from someone whos been toying with Honda rom editors since its inception.

Also, if you are boosted, I would recommend investing in a wideband, there are a million and one things that can malfunction on a turbo'd Honda, still not as bad as a DSM, but you get my point. :)

[MrVtec11]

Hey, well I know you use to do a lot of tuning you still do? Any ways I just need some help here you got a minute? I got it tuned by Jason Maurberger, bad mistake, now my car runs like shit, wants to die after it warms up, idle at like 200 rpm and dies everytime I am driving and come to a stop, like at a light. Motor is LsVtec 2.0 liter need a little help. you might recognize me if you were able to help. :)

P.S. it is built for turbo but I am just getting it running N/A right now. The turbo shit is a little much to have it all right now.....

[KryptoSol]

As far as tuning Crome, I don't do it anymore, mainly b/c like mentioned above, i don't think its stable enough. However i will tune Neptune.

Feel free to PM me with any questions in reguards to Neptune.

[MrVtec11]

pm'd hope to hear from you soon!

[spoonfed_ek]

So whats the setup on the engine? GSR stroked to a 2.0? Also what car is this running in? OBD1 or OBD2?

[MrVtec11]

b18 bored to 2.0 w/ AEBS Pro series solid deck, it is in a 94 Ex coupe OBD1 obviously. lots of goodies in it. Just need a reliable tuner...Kryptosol might be able to help but if anyone else can let me know!!!

[spoonfed_ek]

Oh right on dude. You might look around on here there was a guy a while back that posted on here, he had his own shop that did imports stuff like hondas and dsm's i think. I think his name was cory or cody or something like that, he said he could tune on crome as well.

[MrVtec11]

Oh really? cool, I will look around and hopefully anyone that is GOOD at tuning will hit me up. What do you have, in your car, what kind of car?

[spoonfed_ek]

ive got a 96 ek hatch with a b16 swap. its slow, but its fun. this a cool site. my buddy told me about this. you get quick responses from people on here.

[MrVtec11]

Is it white?

[spoonfed_ek]

no its the dark purple. it doesnt have wheels or anything on it, it looks completely stock . just a b16 swap done in boise where i bought it. Kinda lookin for a place to get some stuff done though. ive heard of a place called 1320, tranceworks, snows, and then a couple of guys that do work like the Chaneys and a guy named chis bondrock i think. but i dont know whos good.

[MrVtec11]

what all are you looking to have done? I know Chris and all the Chaney's and there is another guy that does good work from what I have heard.. he is on here a1320talon is what he goes by I think. So what was it you wanted to do?

[spoonfed_ek]

Ya i dont know, i want to make it handle good more than go fast. so looking for a lot of suspension work. i dont wanna turbo it cause ive heard turbo decreases the life of the engine but i wanna make more power. My buddy told me Chris put together a integra type r that does really good at auto-crossing. So i was gonna talk to him.

[a1320honda]

For tuning i would try out Meng. But for alot of other general stuff, we can help you out here. Ive heard alot of bad things about Jason lately. Chris does know his stuff pretty well for suspension, at least on his R. I highly recommend pickin up a wideband.

[MrVtec11]

Yea, his R is nice. I am actually going to his house tomorrow. so you have a 96 EK hatch. and want to do suspension work? and a bit more power. well pm me on how to get in touch and I'll run it by him and give him your #.

[MrVtec11]

Yea, I am. I just got the damn motor in my car!!! well maybe I can have someone take a look. as long as there are no problems maybe you could drop by steve, i am just out of ideas, i heard you have a wideband setup, is it like perm. in your car or could you take a look at my AFR's?

[a1320honda]

Hey is this Chad? Whats up man. ya i have a wideband in my teg, but its pretty permanent, sorry

[MrVtec11]

Yea it is Chad, Jason fucked me on my tuning it runs like shit!!!!! Fuck I need a Temp. solution i get paid on Tues. and im getting wideband and either Neptune or Hondata S300...Damnit any ideas would be helpful here!

[KryptoSol]

It looks like you havn't been the only one, unfortunately.

what size injectors and map sensor are you running?

[MrVtec11]

Stock on both. what is happening is it idles at like 200 rpm after warm and wants to die when I stop. like he messed up on the open loop(after car warms up) cause when cold it will idle fine. also gotta check if valves got bent cause another problem he created for me. I need some injectors bad def.

[i SOHC]

and im getting wideband and either Neptune or Hondata S300...


get NEPTUNE!!!!!!!!!!!! why? because its a rock solid platform! and the technical support you get is awesome. 10/10 for neptune!!!!!

oh, and just by switching from crome to neptune, my car now runs 1 billion times better!!

[KryptoSol]

U-SOHC,
I think we're the first in E. Washington to run the system on our cars. :)

[i SOHC]

U-SOHC,
I think we're the first in E. Washington to run the system on our cars. :)


yup, i think so too!

[MrVtec11]

From what I am hearing I think I am buying it on Tues. maybe have it here by next weekend. So how does it compare to the Hondata S300?

[KryptoSol]

Well from what i hear Hondatas IAT and ECT don't even work as well as Crome's, thats why you had a bunch of Hondata users making the switch to Crome Pro.

I'd deffinately get some injectors while you are at it to though. Some 1000cc, if you are serious about putting those goodies to use.

What size turbo you gonna run?

[i SOHC]

From what I am hearing I think I am buying it on Tues. maybe have it here by next weekend. So how does it compare to the Hondata S300?


i honestly have had no experiences with hondata. but all i know is, its a lot more expensive..$595 (s300), compared to $450..

and from what i've read, a lot of hondata owners are making the switch to neptune :D. and a lot of people complain about hondata's customer service..

[KryptoSol]

From what I am hearing I think I am buying it on Tues. maybe have it here by next weekend. So how does it compare to the Hondata S300?


I would do a ton of reasearch on each system you are considering, you should NOT just take my word for it.

The system is gonna be designed more for the person who has a good understanding of how EFI works, otherwise you might think its the biggest POS.

[i SOHC]

From what I am hearing I think I am buying it on Tues. maybe have it here by next weekend. So how does it compare to the Hondata S300?


I would do a ton of reasearch on each system you are considering, you should NOT just take my word for it.

The system is gonna be designed more for the person who has a good understanding of how EFI works, otherwise you might think its the biggest POS.


WELL PUT!!

[MrVtec11]

Well I have heard a lot of good and a lot of bad about hondata. Especially for the price, and as I am reading about neptune it really does seem like a better program. and for the turbo size that I am going to use I am just probibly going to use a little gt35r, that should be fine for a 2 liter. I dont want to go too big.

[KryptoSol]

Well the GT35 isn't exactly a small turbo either, but its a good match for 2liter. The turbo will support 600whp i think?

[96gsx]

Who's Jason?

[KryptoSol]

Who's Jason?



A mad tight tuner. :D

[96gsx]

right, at one of these "shops"?

[MrVtec11]

A person who is not going to be in bisness much longer. Can we say class action suit....There are more people than just me.

[KryptoSol]

I don't what he does, i think hes a backyard mechanic or something errr-other...

[96gsx]

Sounds furmilar, Can't put a finger on it. Who is he...

[MrVtec11]

Oh, and meng thanx for the info I have been reasearching the Neptune program and I do like alot. Compareing it to Hondata and it seems to be a much better setup. Well I will do more research how would you like me to get a hold of you when I get it to see if you have any time? I mean I'd rather have someone who has been working with it for a while do the tuning and do it right then someone who has a basic knowledge not got it exactly right.

[KryptoSol]

See thats the thing though...
Tuning is meant for off road purposes only, and if he was smart, he would have made you sign a waiver.

Thats the other reason why i don't tune other peoples cars anymore, the liability. People point to the tuner as soon as something mechanical goes wrong.

[MrVtec11]

He does a lot of auto-cross Crx w/ supercharged b18c5. Ummm... has a buisness called NW Motorsports. ....drives a silver Evo 9 MR....what else....

[KryptoSol]

You can get at me on this forum whenever you are ready.

[MrVtec11]

Meng very true....

[MrVtec11]

And I am not typically the one to point a finger but this has been happening a lot lately from what I have found out. and it def. not a coincidence.

[96gsx]

He does a lot of auto-cross Crx w/ supercharged b18c5. Ummm... has a buisness called NW Motorsports. ....drives a silver Evo 9 MR....what else....


Never heard of him..

[96gsx]

I'm tired of working, I think I'm going to open up a Import shop...

[96gsx]

Then I could fuck up peoples cars, and roll around in an Evo..

[talntid]

Hey MrVtec, just so you know, there is a AEM wideband for sale in our classifieds section. ;)

[a1320honda]

Meng said its sold to his brother.

[talntid]

oh, my bad :)

[MrVtec11]

Yea, I saw that...damnit!!! LoL oh well I am just going to get one next week. Hey steve anyone you know have a burner, im running hella rich!!!

[yay]

the only reason why i was gonna get that wide band was cause my bro wasnt able to get it to work with neptune but he figured it out soo i got assed out :( o well ill go jack my cuzzins wide band =)

[KryptoSol]

Not true, I got an Innovative XD-16 unit. You can have the AEM.

[KryptoSol]

b18 bored to 2.0 w/ AEBS Pro series solid deck,



Did you mention that Edwards did the sleeve job?

How did the compression check out after initial break in?

Ive seen and heard way too many horror stories in regards to Edwards quality of work. I think Chris is the only person i know that has had good luck with them, everyone else i personally know whos had stuff done through Edwards was ..... ugh... not pretty.

[Kolat]

The stuff I had done at edwards was done great, like 3 years ago though and I was meticulous with things.

T

[Turbo]

edwards sucks period...

[pgmfituner]

Hey whats up chad and everybody this is cody the one that spooned_ek spoke of before. Anyway yes i did have a shop called JDM performance untill i made the mistake of getting a partner named TREVOR (he has been talked about alot on this site) anyway I fucked up a good thing. I still do some tuning and I have never blown any motor up. I have tuned cars up to 25 psi and have a good amount of experience at it. Chad knows me but i have a bad back so its hard sometimes for me to get out and do somthing. Im planing on geting going again. So anyone who needs their car tuned or just some advise let me know. Chad will vouch for my skills and I have many more people who are running strong on one of my tunes.

well if you have any questions post here and i will get back to you.

[KryptoSol]

PSI is relative...

You notice anything fishy with Crome's ignition code?

[KryptoSol]

I found this little thread, its got some good stuff about Crome for those who are interested. Its definately got the potential, but thats not to say it dosn't have its quirks.

There is a little mention about Crome's ignition issue.**Apparently this guy has found a way to deal with it, but i'd be careful, best thing would be to check actual ignition while on a dyno to make sure how much timing your seeing, or just be super anal about checking plugs as you work in small increments.


Yes crome has issues with ignition timing. Its been proven that with some setups you cannot pull enough timing in crome to ward off detonation. In fact i've found this to be on a few motors where you would pull extreme amounts of timing and past a certain point there would be no power loss and the detonation would still be there. It takes a little bit of trickery to get around this issue



Happy boosting!

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1926883&page=1

[GetawayInMoscow]

On PGMFI.org there is a huge thread started by John Vega (mtber) talking about exactly what Meng is talking about, CROME and not really pulling ignition in some situations.

The good news is that a new version of crome is supposed to be released in the next month or two that is supposed to address a lot of issues with the program.

[BlackMagic]

Man, there sure are a lot of "tuners" around Spokane. I wonder where all the cars are with all the mad tyte horsepowers...??

(No disrespect to Meng)

[KryptoSol]

No desrespect taken. ;)

I actually don't mind it that more people want to take up tuning. I like to help people, but cars are just hobby for me so i can't help everyone. Nor does it make any sense for me to do it for cash b/c my time invested in my school career is worth more to me, and when i do find free time, i'd rather be spending it trouble shooting my own car. :)

I was driving my blue car to go study the other day and i had a guy pull up next to me and ask, "are you the guy that tunes?" and obviously wanted to know if i could tune his car. Its hard for me to say NO because i love the instant gratification of tuning, but i just don't have time.

Ive always advocated teaching people to learn how to do it themselves, since there is a wealth of info already published online that ANYONE can dig up. But frankly, most people are lazy.

Just my personal opinion... is that learning how EFI works is a prerequisite for owning a turbo Honda... or any turbo'd car for that matter.

[BlackMagic]

I agree 100% Meng.

I just don't know where all the Spokane 25 psi HONDA ROCKETS (that dont blow up) are at. Maybe they are all on the NOPI circuit making me look bad

[i SOHC]

when i do find free time, i'd rather be spending it trouble shooting my own car. :)


and MINE too...muahahahaha!!:P:P

[KryptoSol]

No, i just tell you what needs to be done and make you do it!

[i SOHC]

No, i just tell you what needs to be done and make you do it!


true that! haha

hey its the only way ANYONE will ever learn!:D

[rrussell]

Ive always advocated teaching people to learn how to do it themselves, since there is a wealth of info already published online that ANYONE can dig up. But frankly, most people are lazy.

Just my personal opinion... is that learning how EFI works is a prerequisite for owning a turbo Honda... or any turbo'd car for that matter.


So true!!!!

It amazes me how many people have a standalone EMS or some type of tuning ecu and won't take the time to learn how to tune it. Its like why do you even have it?

Tuning is easy if and a big if you understand how a internal combustion engine works.

[KryptoSol]

Ive always advocated teaching people to learn how to do it themselves, since there is a wealth of info already published online that ANYONE can dig up. But frankly, most people are lazy.

Just my personal opinion... is that learning how EFI works is a prerequisite for owning a turbo Honda... or any turbo'd car for that matter.


So true!!!!

It amazes me how many people have a standalone EMS or some type of tuning ecu and won't take the time to learn how to tune it. Its like why do you even have it?

Tuning is easy if and a big if you understand how a internal combustion engine works.


I didn't have a clue how an internal combustion engine worked when i started. i'm not even sure i understand it now. LoL... No, really though... i didn't understand the relationship between igntion and fuel at first... talk about dumb-luck or something. :)

Lol... its a shame though, tuning is half of the fun!

[GetawayInMoscow]

Especially if you start from a good base map, it's really not that hard at all.

What I don't understand is why everyone who has the ability to change their fuel maps doesn't have a wideband in their car 24/7! IMO it's the most important gauge.

[KryptoSol]

Whoa... i just got done reading that thread about Crome's ignition issue, thats a majorly intense thread! That is some mother F'in smart people right there... might as well be rocket science.


OBD1 ECU advances ignition and and disregards table ignition depending on tip-in fuel and overall correction, and this can occur at any load. Imagine what kinds of problems that could cause for someone. crazy...

What also amazes me is the level of competition between this group of freeware developers and the rest of the industry. Talk about information being POWER!

EDIT: i'm not trying to scare you guys, but just be aware...

[KryptoSol]

this is a log i took a couple of days ago, notice the difference in actual and table ignition?

You can also see in the graph in the bottom left, actual and table ignition is logged.

fortunately, with the current system i'm using now you can disable ECU ignition correction at a predetermined load.

[rrussell]

Whoa... i just got done reading that thread about Crome's ignition issue, thats a majorly intense thread! That is some mother F'in smart people right there... might as well be rocket science.


OBD1 ECU advances ignition and and disregards table ignition depending on tip-in fuel, and this can occur at any load. Imagine what kinds of problems that could cause for someone. crazy...

What also amazes me is the level of competition between this group of freeware developers and the rest of the industry. Talk about information being POWER!

EDIT: i'm not trying to scare you guys, but just be aware...


You have a link? I would like to check it out.

[KryptoSol]

Russell,
You can go here http://forum.pgmfi.org/ but you'll have to register to view.
Scroll down untill you see Crome, and the thread will be the last one stickied.

The thread subject is something like, 'Is Crome's ignition really true?'

apparently its something that has been a known issue for some time now by the people who write the code but didn't want to make it public for fear that competition might pick up on it.

So essentially its nothing new, if you make it standard practice to check and recheck plugs, and learn how to read them, it shouldn't be a prob.

[MrVtec11]

Well, looks like I started a good thread that needed to be here, and we all need to talk about! I am awaiting the XD-16 unit I purchased and hopefully I can get started on trying to fix a few of the bugs in my car, but it is a long road and I havent even got all the turbo parts I need, but It is a start if anyone is able to help me with turbo parts, discounts, ideas on good places to buy feel free, that is going to be the next step here in a couple months. Lets keep this tuning thread going....

[GetawayInMoscow]

Post up what you need and I will tell you the best place to order it from...

I just went through all this (whole custom kit) so I promise I can give you damn close to the best places to buy some shit.

[KryptoSol]

Give me the progress report Milan.

Just finished my last final today, F' yeah!!

I'm gonna go toy around with the car... grab some drinks... wire up some things... turn the boost up a little and see what happens.

[MrVtec11]

Just got the wideband in and as I thougth I am running HELLA rich!!!!! Fun, Fun... Well back to the car to get it running right!!!!