Turbo Honda's sign in ---->

[KryptoSol]

Since i'm officially on spring break and bored as hell since i'm waiting for my girl to finish her last final... i thought i'd make a bunch of useless posts and threads.

Turbo Honda or anything turbo... lets see what you have.

[BlackMagic]

I have a turbo honda.

[Turbo]

stock gsr turbo...

[a1320honda]

Ok why not. most of you guys have seen pics of my setup, just need to get the gsr block tanked so i can assemble it. Oh, and Meng, your bother came by the other night to drop off the wheels to mike....Tell him he did a good job on the sandblasting.

[KryptoSol]

I was wondering why he had some wheels in the back seat.

[MrVtec11]

Well I have a Ls Vtec, bored to a 2 liter, solid deck, 9:1 comp., still sorting out a few bugs, turbo parts are coming soon. Any ideas on places to get decent prices on good stuff let me know.. Thnx!

[gregc]

I have a turbo diesel. I bet my turbo is bigger than your turbo. :P

[GetawayInMoscow]

My car has a turbo bolted to it, does that count? Im hoping to have it started and running today and to atleast be building boost by tomorrow.

I guess it all depends on what comes in the mail today.

[KryptoSol]

I have a turbo diesel. I bet my turbo is bigger than your turbo. :P


Ive read a couple scholarly journals on the study of human sexuality, and they found a strong correlation between people who want to own/boast about BIG things and their small penises. By chance were you in the study?






J/K ;)

[KryptoSol]

My car has a turbo bolted to it, does that count? Im hoping to have it started and running today and to atleast be building boost by tomorrow.

I guess it all depends on what comes in the mail today.


Why dont' you take some pics of the update?

[thursday]

Just got this setup finished.

http://www.hybridka.com/misc/joeavatar/joe1.jpg

d16y7, z6 intake manifold
delta 272 cam
eagle rods srp pistons 9.6:1 c/r
arp head studs
fidanza 7.5 lb flywheel
exedy organic clutch
14b turbo
bmc adaptor plate
cx/vx manifold FTW
rx7 460cc injectors
forge intercooler
2.5" charge pipes and downpipe
megan racing 2.5" exhaust
knockoff type rs bov


http://www.hybridka.com/misc/joeavatar/joe2.jpg
trailer trash.
http://www.hybridka.com/misc/joeavatar/joe3.jpg

[KryptoSol]

nice job, What kind of boost levels are you running?

[thursday]

8 lbs right now, looking to hook up the motorola 2.5 soon and up the boost to something like 12-15 psi, whatever the 14b can dish out.

[NIevo]

Man that looks just like my old VX, I really miss that car!

[idahos_dirty_D]

yea that civic is bad joe. lol

92 civic dx hatch
d15 16v
14b
std manifold
310cc injectors
some bosh bov sounds great
huge front mount (lots of lag)
6 1/2 psi
1810 lbs (soon to be in the 17s here)

all for 1500 bucks including the car.

;)

[rrussell]

8 lbs right now, looking to hook up the motorola 2.5 soon and up the boost to something like 12-15 psi, whatever the 14b can dish out.



Looks nice are you going to the Test&Tune Saturday?

[thursday]

sure am, upped the boost to 15 lbs. too!

[KryptoSol]

sweet, they'll be a couple turbo d's out there saturday!

[yay]

thats a pretty hefty setup for how tiny that turbo is... still pretty cool tho...:D

[thursday]

hey i wouldn't call the 14b that small, i think its a great sized turbo for a street d that has no problems holding 17 psi

[GetawayInMoscow]

jdm joe

[KryptoSol]

hey i wouldn't call the 14b that small, i think its a great sized turbo for a street d that has no problems holding 17 psi


Yeah, the 14b is a decent size turbo, especially for street duty. My brother uses the same turbo as I, so comparatively, the 14b is smaller.

I bet its a killer turbo for street use though. My 50trim is kind of soggy in some street situations.

[GetawayInMoscow]

My 60 trim = highway queen

But the B16 with higher compression and CTR cams makes up for it

[a1320honda]

hey i wouldn't call the 14b that small, i think its a great sized turbo for a street d that has no problems holding 17 psi


Yeah, the 14b is a decent size turbo, especially for street duty. My brother uses the same turbo as I, so comparatively, the 14b is smaller.

I bet its a killer turbo for street use though. My 50trim is kind of soggy in some street situations.



What are you guys making full boost at?

[NIevo]

My 60 trim = highway queen

But the B16 with higher compression and CTR cams makes up for it


Damn, thats bigger then my turbo. What boost levels you running?

[GetawayInMoscow]

7.5 psi...only because my AVC-R is sitting on the couch. Im going to up the boost I just dont think I will have time by saturday so I will be running off the wastegate only

[idahos_dirty_D]

im making full boost at around 4500. high i know. i have a huge frontmount and i have to work on the piping some more. i think joe runs about 3500. i think.

[a1320honda]

I dont feel so bad then, cause on that 57 trim, and all the 2.5" piping, im making 13psi at around 4300-4500. Im trying to find a datalogging cable and possibly a burner, so i can just jump into this with both feet.

[KryptoSol]

i dont make 25psi till 5800rpms. :(

[a1320honda]

i dont make 25psi till 5800rpms.** :(


So what were you at when you made 323? I think im only gonna run 8-9 on saturdaytill i can get a logging cable and a burner. Ive been hard on crome for the last 4-5 hours. I think i got at least a handle on it. I hope anyways.

[thursday]

seems like a pretty good spool for that size of turbo, talon. I make 8 around 3200 but when i upped the boost it seems to take 4000 or so to reach 17 psi

[a1320honda]

seems like a pretty good spool for that size of turbo, talon.**I make 8 around 3200 but when i upped the boost it seems to take 4000 or so to reach 17 psi


But your on a dsm 14b right?

[KryptoSol]

i dont make 25psi till 5800rpms.** :(


So what were you at when you made 323? I think im only gonna run 8-9 on saturdaytill i can get a logging cable and a burner. Ive been hard on crome for the last 4-5 hours. I think i got at least a handle on it. I hope anyways.


I made 323 at PTR injection @17psi, and 322 at Shelly's @20-25psi.
I was pushing the .4bar spring and it was not wanting to hold the boost steady after 20psi. This was done with a .48 a/r exhuast housing, and i suspect at those levels the reversion was occuring and contaminating the charge.

Ive since switched to a .63 housing, the ass-dyno says that top end feels very healthy, but i'm still waiting for trap speeds to confirm this.

As far as Crome, it requires a good amount of time invested during the initial learning period, but once you get over that its a walk in the park.

[a1320honda]

i dont make 25psi till 5800rpms.** :(


So what were you at when you made 323? I think im only gonna run 8-9 on saturdaytill i can get a logging cable and a burner. Ive been hard on crome for the last 4-5 hours. I think i got at least a handle on it. I hope anyways.


I made 323 at PTR injection @17psi, and 322 at Shelly's @20-25psi.
I was pushing the .4bar spring and it was not wanting to hold the boost steady after 20psi. This was done with a .48 a/r exhuast housing, and i suspect at those levels the reversion was occuring and contaminating the charge.

Ive since switched to a .63 housing, the ass-dyno says that top end feels very healthy, but i'm still waiting for trap speeds to confirm this.

As far as Crome, it requires a good amount of time invested during the initial learning period, but once you get over that its a walk in the park.



Ya, im not saying i know even alot at this point, but im getting it down. The biggest thing is i need an ostrich or burner just so i cane physicaly see what the chenges i make really do. As far as the fuel side of things, i dont understand what the actual numbers mean in the cells, but i do understand the timing as its in degrees of advance, and injector duty cycle as well. im learning though. In ecucontrol, how accurate is all the info there? Like the hp/tqe graph and all that, i know on DSMLINK it wasnt too accurate. Is it better to datalogg in ecucontrol or crome, i can datalog in crome cant i? See its just things like this i need the info on. I dont want soone to tune my car for me.

[GetawayInMoscow]

Good luck getting datalogging in crome to work. It's a major drawback of the program.

[NIevo]

i dont make 25psi till 5800rpms. :(


Wow, wheres your redline?

[BlackMagic]

i dont make 25psi till 5800rpms.** :(


Wow, wheres your redline?


6000 HAHA

[a1320honda]

Good luck getting datalogging in crome to work. It's a major drawback of the program.



Ya i have ecucontrol. so ill prolly just use that.

[KryptoSol]

i dont make 25psi till 5800rpms.** :(


Wow, wheres your redline?


6000 HAHA


yeah pretty much. LoL...:rolleyes:

Its 7500rpms, is peaky but its actually got relatively decent torque curve, in the Honda world that is...

[KryptoSol]

i dont make 25psi till 5800rpms.** :(


So what were you at when you made 323? I think im only gonna run 8-9 on saturdaytill i can get a logging cable and a burner. Ive been hard on crome for the last 4-5 hours. I think i got at least a handle on it. I hope anyways.


I made 323 at PTR injection @17psi, and 322 at Shelly's @20-25psi.
I was pushing the .4bar spring and it was not wanting to hold the boost steady after 20psi. This was done with a .48 a/r exhuast housing, and i suspect at those levels the reversion was occuring and contaminating the charge.

Ive since switched to a .63 housing, the ass-dyno says that top end feels very healthy, but i'm still waiting for trap speeds to confirm this.

As far as Crome, it requires a good amount of time invested during the initial learning period, but once you get over that its a walk in the park.



Ya, im not saying i know even alot at this point, but im getting it down. The biggest thing is i need an ostrich or burner just so i cane physicaly see what the chenges i make really do. As far as the fuel side of things, i dont understand what the actual numbers mean in the cells, but i do understand the timing as its in degrees of advance, and injector duty cycle as well. im learning though. In ecucontrol, how accurate is all the info there? Like the hp/tqe graph and all that, i know on DSMLINK it wasnt too accurate. Is it better to datalogg in ecucontrol or crome, i can datalog in crome cant i? See its just things like this i need the info on. I dont want soone to tune my car for me.



I don't have any real experience with ECUcontrol so im unable to give you any valuable feedback. In order to datalog with Crome you need to buy the CromePro version, $150.**

The values in the cells, you probably don't have to pay too much attention to them right now. The key with tuning with no datalogging is just being able to visualize and uderstand which load cells the engine is operating in, which can work out pretty well because the all rom editors interpolate the values, usually an average of 4 cells. Just remember, its RPM versus Load. Datalogging can be helpfull but its not completely neccesary. Datalogging is a must when you are running 20-30psi because a lot of things are happening really fast, like when the ECU is flying through the cells, and there is no possible way to drive and look at the wideband display all at the same time.

heres a tip;
first 2 columns are typically idle and low load cells
next 3 are typically cruising
the rest can be considered WOT
*remember to interpolate or "smooth" inbetween regions.

Burners are hard to come by b/c its not a peice of hardware that everyone has, and if they do they usually keep for a long time. I would say just shell out the $90 and buy the Moates Burn 1.

The Ostrich is iffy... there where some things that i wasn't too impressed with and went back to the good ole burner method, although it does take longer to tune.

[GetawayInMoscow]

Got the boost turned up to 10 psi and the car semi-tuned. It was running really rich in the mid range and after about 10 WOT pulls I got it a lot better but not perfect. At 10 psi it's sitting at a nice 11.6:1 which is where I feel is safe for an higher CR car.

[a1320honda]

Got the boost turned up to 10 psi and the car semi-tuned. It was running really rich in the mid range and after about 10 WOT pulls I got it a lot better but not perfect. At 10 psi it's sitting at a nice 11.6:1 which is where I feel is safe for an higher CR car.


Nice man, im on 11 right now and it feels good. Pulling dead on 11.4 afr on the wideband from 5000rpm all the way to 7500. Just playing around with fuel pressure. I just need some help on the tuning side of things. And this datalogging program sucks (ecucontrol) I have no idea after logging in my buddys turbo teg what kind of timing hes really pulling, or what IDC hes at. I guess im just used to DSM's with MMCD being able to monitor knock, timing advance, IDC. It seems like its more for show. So anyone know of a better datalogging program. You have to buy crome pro to log with that and im not shelling out the $150 just yet, lol. Plus ive read that it sucks. Anyone tht would be willing to help me tune a little bit tomorrow if they have time, id make it worth your while.

[KryptoSol]

Got the boost turned up to 10 psi and the car semi-tuned. It was running really rich in the mid range and after about 10 WOT pulls I got it a lot better but not perfect. At 10 psi it's sitting at a nice 11.6:1 which is where I feel is safe for an higher CR car.


Nice man, im on 11 right now and it feels good. Pulling dead on 11.4 afr on the wideband from 5000rpm all the way to 7500. Just playing around with fuel pressure. I just need some help on the tuning side of things. And this datalogging program sucks (ecucontrol) I have no idea after logging in my buddys turbo teg what kind of timing hes really pulling, or what IDC hes at. I guess im just used to DSM's with MMCD being able to monitor knock, timing advance, IDC. It seems like its more for show. So anyone know of a better datalogging program. You have to buy crome pro to log with that and im not shelling out the $150 just yet, lol. Plus ive read that it sucks. Anyone tht would be willing to help me tune a little bit tomorrow if they have time, id make it worth your while.



I'm not familiar with DSM ecu based fuel mangement, but on Honda's, in a nut-shell, open loop will read directly from ignition tables. You got to find max VE as a reference point and then work from there, checking plugs and such. Also, remember that the values in the ignition cells are assuming that base timing is set to 16* at the flywheel.

There isn't much you can do as far as street tuning ignition cells, i usually just keep it conservative, and again, checking plugs as i work. There are several quick and dirty methods to geusstimate where peak torque is occuring, you can look at 2d fuel profiles, where they peak out, I figure its safe to say that that'll probably be the general area where peak torque is occuring, and where charge density is greatest.

This is getting into an area that i feel i'm not qualified to intelligently discuss, i just work with the little "hunch" that i have and luckly it seems to work for me, but i don't want to accidentally misinform peeps. Im comfortable getting around but i'm not good enough to teach others how to do it. :)

But what i would suggest is doing some research on the two conditions that exists (which occure in varying degrees) in internal engine combustion. Find out why and where VE peaks and where it starts to drop, and how the relationship between a/f and ignition effect it.

maybe Russell or Reid could chime in, i think they are better versed in this area than i am, since they are EFI101 grads. I'm a EFI hack, i didn't learn the fundamentals. :)

also, don't get into the mind set of just a/f tuning, there are much more to the puzzle. If it where that simple i would teach a monkey to tune my car for me.

[pgmfituner]

steve did you go get the datalogging cable from radio shack, i posted all the pinouts and hookup for the new cable. it should work fine but ecucontrol logs about what any logging software will. but its still nice to log somthing. if anyone has problems with the cable let me know or if someone just wants me to install let me know.