wideband shootout

[KryptoSol]

I came across this link and thought some of you guys would find it an interesting read.

wideband shootout (http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2007/06/WidebandShootout/index.php)

Ive owned 3 different widebands since i started playing with EFI.

By far the innovative is the highest quality ive personally owned (xd-16 unit). I'm surprised that the AEM unit came in 2nd, because the quality on that unit was poor.

[Mr. Hoy]

Nice find, this is some interesting material

[GetawayInMoscow]

Yeah I dunno about that.

Says the PLX is + or - 1 AFR. Well which one is it? Did it read 1 too high and then 1 too low? That's not even feasible.

Also welding the bungs in that fashion is retarded, especially since my PLX and most widebands come with a thing that says they should be mounted up right or at least less than a 45* angle.

AEM came in 2nd? Yeah I believe that....

[gregc]

They didn't even include a Tech Edge unit. I wonder why? Personally, I wouldn't buy anything else.

[a1320honda]

I was thinking the same thing bout he PLX. I have the M300 and its very fast and when the sensor was new it was dead on according to the plugs when id pull em and compare. Nice find though. Kinda seemed like the article was a little biased towards the innovative though.

[GetawayInMoscow]

It doesn't even make sense.

First, you think when the manufacturers make a product they do some testing to make sure it works, right? Well I'm sure they do a test and check for accuracy. Would you, as a wideband company, release a product that is off by .5 or 1.0? I know I wouldn't.

Second, I like how they used leaded gas to simulate wear. That's like testing snow tires and doing a 15 minute burnout before hand to simulate wear. I'm pretty damn sure everyone knows that leaded fuels kill your wideband very quickly.

Third, the fact that they are rated + or - is really pretty stupid. I guarantee all of these widebands, while they may not be 100% accurate, are precise. This means that if the AEM is reading .2 higher, it's always going to read .2 higher (or the same percentage scale based on how a wideband works). Not .2 higher sometimes and .2 lower sometimes

All in all I think there are too many factors to make this test worthy. I'm actually going to email the website and tell them their shit's weak.

[gregc]

Second, I like how they used leaded gas to simulate wear. That's like testing snow tires and doing a 15 minute burnout before hand to simulate wear. I'm pretty damn sure everyone knows that leaded fuels kill your wideband very quickly.

What do you consider very quickly? It isn't quite as bad as you think. They are quite tolerable to leaded fuel when used just for racing (not daily driving). My sensors seem to last ~2 years and I used to use leaded fuel pretty often.

Here is a little data about the Bosch sensor (the one most everyone uses) from Tech Edge:
Using LSU Sensors With Leaded Fuel

Depending on the lead content of the fuel used, the expected service life time is: (preliminary data)
for 0.6 g Pb/l: 20,000 km
for 0.4 g Pb/l: 30,000 km
for 0.15 g Pb/l: 60,000 km
for 0.00 g Pb/l: 160,000 km (ie. unleaded)

Extrapolating this Bosch data suggest that at 1.5 g/l the life may be as low as 2,000 km or just 20 hours at 100 km/h. AvGas 100LL has 0.56 g/l Pb, suggesting a sensor life of 200 hours. Compare this to a suggested life of 1,600 hours for unleaded.

[GetawayInMoscow]

Well look what I found on IMS, I knew I was right when I thought the wideband shoot out was a crock of shit. This is why high school drop outs shouldn't conduct scientific experiments.

Any test that puts an AEM wideband in 2nd place is clearly fucked up.

I posted the article from the ford magazine that Blackdeath posted on SRTforums and one of the vendors contacted the vice president of zeitronix about answeres as to why there wideband did so shi*ty. He responded.
"
Regarding the recent Fordmuscle wideband shootout.
We have spoken to Mr. Mike Kojima, the author of the Fordmuscle shootout and got first hand test details.

The tests were done using Innovate methodology and Innovate equipment.

There were several major flaws in the test, including but not limited to the way the O2 sensor was exposed to the test gases.

One of the major test flaws was reading the AFR value from the Zeitronix Zt-2 analog output using the Innovate logger. There is always a voltage drop on the power-ground wire caring 12W of O2 sensor heater power and offsetting the AFR value. Reading the AFR value from the Innovate digital output but logging a raw Zt-2 voltage using Innovate logger suspected the Zt-2 AFR reading to the voltage drop, noise and Innovate logger analog to digital conversion offsets and conversion time. The Zeitronix ZDL datalogging software should have been used to read the AFR value from the digital output of the Zt-2; not any other product brand. Using the Innovate analog logger gave Innovate LC-1 unit, a half track length advantage in this 1/4 mile race. We either start from the same line or this test is not valid at all. This is an absolute violation and unscrupulous action.

The same goes for the "latency" measurement. The Zt-2 AFR readings were obtained by using the Innovate logger and software.

The Zeitronix ZDL software was not used in the test but scored the lowest.

Moreover, the Zt-2 scored the lowest in "ease of use" category. You know first hand how easy is to get the AFR value from the Zt-2. It takes two wires to be connected to +12V and ground plus the O2 sensor placed in the exhaust stream to read the AFR. The Zeitronix LCD display plugs and powers up directly from the Zt-2.

As you suspect, Fordmuscle is sponsored by Innovate.

At this point we are requesting comments to be added to Frodmuscle Wideband Shootout immediately.

Thank you for your patronage.
Zbigniew
Vp Eng Zeitronix Inc.

[94blueGSX]

I think this is one of the best posts on the site. Very informative and full of different info. Shows how everyone is biased one way or another.

[thursday]

Kojima strikes again!

as for mounting, you are supposed to mount the sensor 9 o clock to 12 o clock to keep moisture from building up on the sensor, more of a long term thing I'm pretty sure.


I've ran both a tech edge (wb02.com) and an innovate lc-1 with a moates o-meter and it seemed like the lc-1 was more a permanent wideband whereas the tech edge was much easier to move to different vehicles due wiring aspects, i believe it is also a little bit cheaper.

[MrVtec11]

I like the innovate xd-16 very nice unit easy to install and use. From what I have read and heard it is about the best unit out and thats what I wanted...Just my .02