Feed Your need for speed!

[FNSR]

Its that time of the week again where you can barley contain your racing appetite! Every time you stop at a red light you see yourself sitting on the line waiting to launch! Feed your appetite at Spokane raceway park For the High school drags gates open at 4! Or for the heads up street racers in all of us gates open at 8 for FRIDAY NIGHT STREET RACING! Its still only 5 bucks to get in and race that's right only 5 bucks! Hope to see you there!

[sefus]

aww good our weekly reminder is here...

[KryptoSol]

i forgot, how much is Highschool drags?

[FNSR]

It is $13.00 for car and driver

[96gsx]

I'll be out tonight tuning.. see you fella's their.

[sefus]

HS Drags is where its at if you ask me.

Unless it has changed in the last year it might be neat to spread the word about HS Drags either to highschools themselves (although its summer now so that wont really help but for the future...)for the points race or just to the public. Always seems like the same low car count, which is fine for me getting more runs but still it would be neat to see some responsible kids come out and do their thing or see some family/father-son types out there.

[VWLover]

Friday already.........shit what happen to thursday??????

[FNSR]

It skipped us I'm not complaing though!

[talntid]

Ill be there!

[98spydert]

I'm out of meth :( but I'll be there to watch. Hell I might even creep down the track on low boost and a little blue smoke from the valve seal I didn't feel like changing in this hot ass weather lol.

[98spydert]

btw... I hope FNSR is making some donations to this site with all of this advertising...

[98spydert]

Success! The car didn't fall apart. lol I babied the hell out of it between gears and it ran great so I'll actually focus on driving the thing next time and getting a race that's evening matched.

Anyone see if I beat the T-28 GS-T at the end of the night? I gave him a hell of a head start by bogging then spinning but it was too close to tell at the end and I just drove straight home.

Nice to meet some of you guys, see you next time.

ETA: Just reviewed DSMLink. 19psi, 18.x* peak timing, 10.5:1, and trapping ~105-106. I'll get back up over 110 with some tuning, psi, and... driving lol

[96gsx]

My speed sensor must be dead.??It's saying I trapping a wapping 94-98MPH on all of my runs.??I'm pretty sure anitlag ate my plugs or turbo.??One the way home I was breaking up right at when my 3.3bar hit 19psi.??I had to pull over at Longhorn and turn the boost down to 18, still did it, 17, still did it, though better..??16, almost gone, 15, no break up.??I sure hope it's just the plugs/wires.??I logged all of it.??I cant see any reasion in my loggs why its happening, but it is 1:30am.??I'm going to post a few logs on Dsmlink forum tomarrow night and see what they think..

I had a good time.??I wanted to see that guy in the 1g eclipse with a GT40r run but I was in the lanes all night. I never took him up on letting me sit in the passengers seat.??I only lost 2 races.??Once to the guy in??the blue twin turbo supra (not by much) I think Eric has a video he cought me in the last couple feet by 1-2 car lenghts.??The other loss was to Jamie in the that blue 1g with a built 50tim by like 5 car lengths.??Fucking fast.??

I'm glad I went out.??I might actully head out more often.??I got Dsmlink dialed in at 17psi street tune & 19,20,21 psi with H20.??Note to self Antilag is not a good idea on 14b!??Good to meet 98spydert.??

[98spydert]

Hey Scott, I just ordered that JM fab heat sheild and plug cover. They're just too sexy :D

[KryptoSol]

96gsx,
My bro got you on vid running against the supra, car looks good.

[96gsx]

Those JMfab's shields are pretty nice! for whatever reason I get alot of bugs on it. That Supra is pretty quick. I'm looking forward to running him agian.

Post a video..

[il_wolf_li]

Last night was pretty damn fun, I ended up making 4 passes in the AC Cobra and I think we may not be allowed to run out there anymore....not sure.?I know for sure that we can go significantly faster than the 9.7@150 from a couple weeks ago.?The race for $1000 didn't go down but its all good...we may have to do it somewhere else later on.

[MrsTurboNuts]

why wouldnt you beable to race out there anymore? not safe or what?

[98spydert]

What bike did you race in the AC? That was awesome, very fun to watch that thing fly down the track.

96gsx, what were your 70-90mph times from your logs?

[96gsx]

4.5 secs.

[98spydert]

Dang, pretty high. Did you get a log uploaded on the link boards or anywhere else? I'd like to take a look if you don't mind. I speant like an hour reveiwing and calucating changes to mine today. It's nice to have some fresh logs finally.

[96gsx]

Yeah, That Dsmlink board is getting on my nerves. one, maybee two people ever help out on that site.??It's a good info site, but frustrating as hell to get good answers..??

Forum Link (http://www.dsmlink.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10386)

This is probably the best log I've had on my 14b.??LOG (http://www.dsmlink.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6003)

[rrussell]

Last night was pretty damn fun, I ended up making 4 passes in the AC Cobra and I think we may not be allowed to run out there anymore....not sure.?I know for sure that we can go significantly faster than the 9.7@150 from a couple weeks ago.?The race for $1000 didn't go down but its all good...we may have to do it somewhere else later on.


Brian what car was the race for $1000.00

Dang I missed out on the fun.:(

[98spydert]

That's weird, some of your logs have the boostest matching the gm33bar routine almost perfectly and others have it off by up to 6psi. Did you ever get around to doing that boost leak test?

Are you running pure distilled water or washer fluid or what?

[rrussell]

Will the DSM Link read W/B O2 or just narrow?

[98spydert]

It'll log almost all aftermarket WB02s. Scott and I both have our PLX wide bands and GM MAP sensors wired into the harness so we can log them with the rest of the DSMLink parameters.

[rrussell]

Cool! :)

I'm trying to figure what way to go and the DSM Link sounds like it will do what I want for half the price of a standalone.

[98spydert]

Yeah, after watching MANY of the guys on the private DSMLink boards make well over 500awhp, I'm convinced it's the best way to go for street cars. It's EASY to use, you're car will start and run great with no adjustments after popping in the chip, and like you said, it's half the price of standalones.

Plus, the support is outstanding. The creaters are on the boards every day and asnwer e-mails all day long. They upgrade the PC software what seems like every month and you download it straight from th forum. And every time they come out with a new version, we only pay $45 to get the new chip and any other new equipment and wirering needed to run it. The next version will have onboard memory so it will retain your settings even if the battery is unplugged. The 1G version already has this.

Good stuff! Check out Scotts or mine next time we're at the track.

[98spydert]

BTW, anyone know the guy with the 95 black Civic coupe with B20 swap who was out there? He claimed he traps 100mph and wanted to race me. Said something about me trying to race him on Nevada :roll: He watched me race that wild looking blue Integra with LED taillights and when I came back and asked him to run, he parked his car and refused?

I'm gonna try some other tires I have and I'd like to take a shot at that blue Supra also.

[rrussell]

Yeah, after watching MANY of the guys on the private DSMLink boards make well over 500awhp, I'm convinced it's the best way to go for street cars.??It's EASY to use, you're car will start and run great with no adjustments after popping in the chip, and like you said, it's half the price of standalones.??

Plus, the support is outstanding.??The creaters are on the boards every day and asnwer e-mails all day long.??They upgrade the PC software what seems like every month and you download it straight from th forum.??And every time they come out with a new version, we only pay $45 to get the new chip and any other new equipment and wirering needed to run it.??The next version will have onboard memory so it will retain your settings even if the battery is unplugged.??The 1G version already has this.

Good stuff!??Check out Scotts or mine next time we're at the track.


Thanks for the good info!

[il_wolf_li]

Last night was pretty damn fun, I ended up making 4 passes in the AC Cobra and I think we may not be allowed to run out there anymore....not sure.?I know for sure that we can go significantly faster than the 9.7@150 from a couple weeks ago.?The race for $1000 didn't go down but its all good...we may have to do it somewhere else later on.


Brian what car was the race for $1000.00

Dang I missed out on the fun.:(


The $1000 race was against a crotch rocket. At first it was suppose to be against this kids 600+cc bike, then he was going to run his buddies modded 949 (something like that). He doesn't think there is any street car that can touch a crotch rocket. I mentioned setting up a race against Greg's Camaro because it is geared a little more towards drag racing and he said that he would race either car. ;) So maybe we will have to set it up against Greg's car since it will run the number every time..... the kid has money and doesn't think a street car can touch a crotch rocket.

As far as not running again.... they want a 6-point bar put into the car. This car was built to look cool and make lots of horsepowers!!! We will just have to see what happens....I hope we can run out there some more. It is the only somewhat safe place we have to go play with it.

[VWLover]

LOL I heard the AC Cobra is out of control fast! I think it was marty that said brian has big balls and hella driving skills to get it down the track straight! HAHA To much power for SRP.

[96gsx]

I'm running distilled, I thinking about putting somthing larger then my M4 in their.??I don't think it's contolling knock as it should.??I was looking at that airflow discrepency too at 5500.??It matched up pretty well at 17psi but is off by 6% at 20psi.??I did a boost leakdown test at Eric's house.??I'm loosing pressure at 13psi through all 4 of my injector o-rings.??:cool:

I said fuck it.??I'll be running alot better when I get some FIC 1000cc's and an injector nozzle like your 600cc. I just need to start doing some math..

[Throttletag]

Last night was pretty damn fun, I ended up making 4 passes in the AC Cobra and I think we may not be allowed to run out there anymore....not sure.?I know for sure that we can go significantly faster than the 9.7@150 from a couple weeks ago.?The race for $1000 didn't go down but its all good...we may have to do it somewhere else later on.


Brian what car was the race for $1000.00

Dang I missed out on the fun.:(


The $1000 race was against a crotch rocket. At first it was suppose to be against this kids 600+cc bike, then he was going to run his buddies modded 949 (something like that). He doesn't think there is any street car that can touch a crotch rocket. I mentioned setting up a race against Greg's Camaro because it is geared a little more towards drag racing and he said that he would race either car. ;)??So maybe we will have to set it up against Greg's car since it will run the number every time..... the kid has money and doesn't think a street car can touch a crotch rocket.

As far as not running again.... they want a 6-point bar put into the car.??This car was built to look cool and make lots of horsepowers!!! We will just have to see what happens....I hope we can run out there some more.??It is the only somewhat safe place we have to go play with it.

LMAO!!!! That car runs that fast, and all they want is a 6-point?! HAHAHA Thats classic!!!

[98spydert]

I'm running distilled, I thinking about putting somthing larger then my M4 in their. I don't think it's contolling knock as it should. I was looking at that airflow discrepency too at 5500. It matched up pretty well at 17psi but is off by 6% at 20psi. I did a boost leakdown test at Eric's house. I'm loosing pressure at 13psi through all 4 of my injector o-rings. :cool:

I said fuck it. I'll be running alot better when I get some FIC 1000cc's and an injector nozzle like your 600cc. I just need to start doing some math..


Yeah, distilled through an M4 isn't going to do a lot. It's better than nothing at all, but I think you'll have some awesome results with a big injector and at least part methonal. You're running some conservitive timing and AFR so you've got tons of room to tune. Should be fun.

That discrepency is no biggy if you've got boost leaks. Once they're fixed the numbers will probably match pretty well.. I'm off by a couple percent but need to do a test myself. I'm going to head out in a week or two to FNSR again with the new tune and maybe 21psi and see how that works. I'd like to progress to 24-25 again with a nice tune, I think I'll be trapping closer to my old setup at 117. Or I might just give up on this little 16G and do the it the easy way with a real turbo lol

[96gsx]

I just need to get off my lazzy ass and replace my injector o-rings.?I need to get those new spark plugs & wires too, crap.???What size injector do you think I should go with??I'm leaning twords 600cc....?30lb/min 92% IDC

I might just give up on this little 16G and do the it the easy way with a real turbo lol
Ditto...??I'll be out on the 11th for FNSR

[98spydert]

o-rings and spark plugs... I wish those were on my list. Damn valve seals are haunting me. I don't want to turn a wrench!!! But I'm doing them friday so I can stop crying about it.

A 600 should give you some room to play while you're using those 450s. I went from 90+% IDC on 650s to 60% IDC with the addition of the 600cc nozzle and a 80/20 mix. I was pulling like 25% fuel to get to the low 11:1 range. Now I'm about the same but on 750s. I put together a new timing map, we'll see if I run slower on the 11th lol

[gregc]

Low 11:1 AFRs? Is that really what DSMs run best at?

Interesting.

[96gsx]

on pump gas.

[KryptoSol]

Low 11:1 AFRs? Is that really what DSMs run best at?

Interesting.


really... even with alky?

[96gsx]

Depends on who you ask. Kevin Jewler, one dsmgod I hold high respect for preaches he has never found any significant power increase above 11.5:1, at least not enough to lean it out further. Personally, I've never run leaner then 10.8:1 without seeing at least 4-5 counts of knock on pump gas. Plenty of people have had good results in 12-12.5:1. I think it just has to do with personal tuning preference and good mechanical knowledge.

[KryptoSol]

I'm kind of curious as to what the EFI101 graduates think. How much of combustion chamber design have to do with this? if any... i don't know...

B/c for my car the power just gets crisper and crisper as i get closer to 12.5, but i just leave it at 11.8 - 12.2 range. I just always do the ole, run the car wot, shut off at the top of run, coast to a stop and pull plugs. Even at 12.5, there are no signs of det. but i always do this during the evenings or night, when it is actually cooler.

[rrussell]

My .02 worth.

From my readings I have found that between 12.0 and 13.0 is the sweet spot for power.

Anything less then 12.0 AFR will start to slow down the flame speed.
Anything higher then 13.0 AFR will start to slow down the flame speed.

So anything between 12 and 13 will have the fastest flame speed and will give you a way to support less ignition advance. If and only if you have a fuel with a high enough octane to support the cylinder pressure that are being made. If you don't then you can go with a lower AFR and this will slow combustion and max pressure will be made at a later crank angle and will help with detonation. But of course torque will be less. This is sometimes a way to cool combustion temps and keep detonation from happening.

Now also N/A verse boost engines like different A/F ratios. The denser the charge (air and fuel) the faster the flame speed. So the higher the boost the more ignition advance that will need to be pulled to keep max torque.

As far as head design goes this will affect timing more then fuel. Same goes for bore dia. The idea is to have max pressure at 14* ATDC.

Ben Straders analogy-- " Think of pedaling a bike you apply max energy to the pedal when its past TDC about 14*. If you start it to soon the pedal wants to go backwards. Bad thing... massive amounts of pressure are being made and the pistons is cycling towards the top and the pressure is trying to push it backwards. The pressure becomes so high that the fuel, even race gas can't support it, so detonation shows its ugly head.

14* ATDC is where crank leverage is its best and max torque is to be made.

Today's heads are made up mostly of the fast burn design and require less timing. The faster you can burn the fuel the less time there will be for detonation.

[96gsx]

I decited to go with a M7 injector with water/washer fluid. It's rated at 8.4GPH @ 150psi or 600cc.. So it should work well. I'm thinking about buying an 11GPH/800cc for Meth...

[KryptoSol]

My .02 worth.

From my readings I have found that between 12.0 and 13.0 is the sweet spot for power.

Anything less then 12.0 AFR will start to slow down the flame speed.
Anything higher then 13.0 AFR will start to slow down the flame speed.

So anything between 12 and 13 will have the fastest flame speed and will give you a way to support less ignition advance. If and only if you have a fuel with a high enough octane to support the cylinder pressure that are being made. If you don't then you can go with a lower AFR and this will slow combustion and max pressure will be made at a later crank angle and will help with detonation. But of course torque will be less. This is sometimes a way to cool combustion temps and keep detonation from happening.

Now also N/A verse boost engines like different A/F ratios. The denser the charge (air and fuel) the faster the flame speed. So the higher the boost the more ignition advance that will need to be pulled to keep max torque.

As far as head design goes this will affect timing more then fuel. Same goes for bore dia. The idea is to have max pressure at 14* ATDC.

Ben Straders analogy-- " Think of pedaling a bike you apply max energy to the pedal when its past TDC about 14*. If you start it to soon the pedal wants to go backwards. Bad thing... massive amounts of pressure are being made and the pistons is cycling towards the top and the pressure is trying to push it backwards. The pressure becomes so high that the fuel, even race gas can't support it, so detonation shows its ugly head.

14* ATDC is where crank leverage is its best and max torque is to be made.

Today's heads are made up mostly of the fast burn design and require less timing. The faster you can burn the fuel the less time there will be for detonation.




Good stuff rrussell.

[98spydert]

My .02 worth.

From my readings I have found that between 12.0 and 13.0 is the sweet spot for power.

Anything less then 12.0 AFR will start to slow down the flame speed.
Anything higher then 13.0 AFR will start to slow down the flame speed.

So anything between 12 and 13 will have the fastest flame speed and will give you a way to support less ignition advance. If and only if you have a fuel with a high enough octane to support the cylinder pressure that are being made. If you don't then you can go with a lower AFR and this will slow combustion and max pressure will be made at a later crank angle and will help with detonation. But of course torque will be less. This is sometimes a way to cool combustion temps and keep detonation from happening.

Now also N/A verse boost engines like different A/F ratios. The denser the charge (air and fuel) the faster the flame speed. So the higher the boost the more ignition advance that will need to be pulled to keep max torque.

As far as head design goes this will affect timing more then fuel. Same goes for bore dia. The idea is to have max pressure at 14* ATDC.

Ben Straders analogy-- " Think of pedaling a bike you apply max energy to the pedal when its past TDC about 14*. If you start it to soon the pedal wants to go backwards. Bad thing... massive amounts of pressure are being made and the pistons is cycling towards the top and the pressure is trying to push it backwards. The pressure becomes so high that the fuel, even race gas can't support it, so detonation shows its ugly head.

14* ATDC is where crank leverage is its best and max torque is to be made.

Today's heads are made up mostly of the fast burn design and require less timing. The faster you can burn the fuel the less time there will be for detonation.






Good info.

If my memory is worth a damn, that range is actually 11.5:1 to 13.3:1. Those numbers represent rich best torque and lean best torque, both at WOT. Todays mean best torque is 12.2:1 (.83 lambda) which is what I usually play around with but I've been a wuss with tuning since I haven't even looked at my tune since last year :P Also, I usually leave the settings the same for street and track and personally don't think a 12:1 and leaner burn is good for every day driving considering the temps and air quality seen on the road.

The optimal advance for peak cylinder pressure probably varies from class to class and book to book but I usually see 15* ATDC.

[98spydert]

I decited to go with a M7 injector with water/washer fluid. It's rated at 8.4GPH @ 150psi or 600cc.. So it should work well. I'm thinking about buying an 11GPH/800cc for Meth...


Try the M7 with 80/20 meth, you'll like what you see :D

I'll try to dig up my old logs from before and after. Basically I went from a 10-10.5:1 AFR up to 11-12:1 AFR, 16* peak advance to 19-20* peak advance, and 17psi up to 24psi. I can't remember the lbs/min but I think it was low 30s and the final results yeilded 41.5 lbs/min. All on CA 91oct.

[96gsx]

Nice, I'm looking forward to it...??I orderd it today online from enginerunup.com.??I couldn't find anyone locally who has M-style injectors.??WTF, I couldn't find shit for water/meth tanks, fittings, anything.??Somone needs to step up and stock these things locally.??I also picked up some 4 o-rings, hopefully get those in tuesday and be finished with my boost leaks.? 10.8:1 is about the leanest I can go without seeing 4 counts of knock on this gay 3.8ghp injector....??God Damn I'm excited.??Whoot Whoot.??

[KryptoSol]

Now also N/A verse boost engines like different A/F ratios. The denser the charge (air and fuel) the faster the flame speed. So the higher the boost the more ignition advance that will need to be pulled to keep max torque.



Would you agree that since max charge density= peak VE, and starts to diminish there after, more ignition advance can start to be reintroduced?

also, in regards to Ben Straders analogy that you used, would that explain the diminishing returns with ignition tweeking before MBTT occurs?

In other words, power will level off before MBTT is seen?

EDIT: i wish some of this info could be moved to the fuel management forum. I'd like to see more disscussion like this but it seems that some people like to horde information. I say keep it comming.

[rrussell]

Now also N/A verse boost engines like different A/F ratios. The denser the charge (air and fuel) the faster the flame speed. So the higher the boost the more ignition advance that will need to be pulled to keep max torque.



Would you agree that since max charge density= peak VE, and starts to diminish there after, more ignition advance can start to be reintroduced?

(Yes. Because the cycle time is shorter in time due to the increase in RPM. This affects the the VE because there is less time to fill the engines volume.So the results are a lower denser charge in the cylinders and a increase in boost at the guage. Boost being an restriction meter of flow)

also, in regards to Ben Straders analogy that you used, would that explain the diminishing returns with ignition tweeking before MBTT occurs?

In other words, power will level off before MBTT is seen?

Not sure I'm understanding this one;)

EDIT: i wish some of this info could be moved to the fuel management forum. I'd like to see more disscussion like this but it seems that some people like to horde information. I say keep it comming.

yeah me too.

[98spydert]

EDIT: i wish some of this info could be moved to the fuel management forum. I'd like to see more disscussion like this but it seems that some people like to horde information. I say keep it comming.


Most forums have a "split" function for the moderators. Maybe they can split the relevent posts off to another thread in the fuel management forum if you ask real nice :D

[talntid]

Tell me which post #'s and what you want the thread topic to be.

[98spydert]

From #38 and up is about timing, AFR, meth/h20, and tuning. Not sure what to call it, anything works I guess. We'll find it