anyone who knows anything bout EFI look here

[Evosol]

Ive been kicking around the idea of developing a wireless knock detection device for tuning. Experience has taught me that there is no electronic device that is better at detecting knock than the human ears.

My idea is this there will be a microphone bolted to the block with programable software to filter out noise, with wireless hearing devices. This would be designed to use when tuning igntion much like DET cans work, except you have the conviencence of wireless technology.

i'd like to hear some feedback from some of you EFI tuner guys.

This is OT but... how about HUD (heads up display) technology built into a motorcycle/car helment visor displaying stats such as RPMs, speed, 1/4 mile stats or any other vital stats. Do you guys see any potential for this technology in the motorsports world??

[Jetblack]

I actually use two DET cans and a string.

The HUD idea is badass! I considered buying a used Cadillac, instead of my Mustang, for the HUD. Thank God I didn't follow through with that one.

Can the HUD be driven by a laser, instead of actual letters that are reflected?

Cool beans. That'd be so badass. You could turn off you instument lights, at night, b/c your instruments are mounted in your helmet now :) Cell phone in your ear connected to your iPhone/iTunes.

We are BORG.

[Evosol]

I actually use two DET cans and a string.

The HUD idea is badass! I considered buying a used Cadillac, instead of my Mustang, for the HUD. Thank God I didn't follow through with that one.

Can the HUD be driven by a laser, instead of actual letters that are reflected?

Cool beans. That'd be so badass. You could turn off you instument lights, at night, b/c your instruments are mounted in your helmet now :) Cell phone in your ear connected to your iPhone/iTunes.

We are BORG.

Well imagine a wireless DET can with digitally processed sound between the mic and ear peice.

And for those who are not familiar with a DET can. The one ive built uses a shooting ear muffs with thick walled hose shoved into the ear peice, while the other end goes to a crushed copper pipe that gets bolted down to the block. You have to play around with hose size but once you get it right, its amazing what you can hear!

and pretty much what you are looking for are the sound of BBs in a tin can.

although this works, its very cumbersome.

The HUD is such cool technology, but it might be too expensive at the moment. I'm still kicking it around with my buddy who developes it.

[SOMTA]

The Grand Prix's have come with a basic HUD for a long time now. Would have all the dummy lights on it, with radio station/song track and speed # on the windshield. I have a spare unit laying around I could give to ya to tamper with. I think a lot of it has to do with the angle of the windshield. They do have a special windshield they put in to make it a little more clear when it is projected but it is in the ballpark of $600 if I remember right. The newer units in the 05+ models also incorporate the GPS navigation in it for turn and distance until the turn along with the name of roads and all that stuff.

The new Z06 also uses a HUD that shows all sorts of info, the G's your pulling, a active tach, other vitals of the car like oil pressure and such. Would imagine it is a pretty spendy unit, might be able to find one on ebay or possibly a junk yard.

For the knock a car produces I think a lot of the cars now come with a basic KR sensor, I know they are present in our W-bodies and when you drop the pully you can really get them to go nuts. It actually helps provide the amount of timing the car is running and when to pull and add the timing. Have heard lots of stories of people pulling it "knowing" their car is not pinging and it is false from a swaybar hitting the block or body and 50 miles later they are on the phone with junkyards looking for a new block. Maybe I'm not listening close enough for the noise, but I could never hear any of my cars pinging for the life of me, except for our old minivan when I got a bad batch of gas, not only could I feel it but I could hear it on that one.

[gregc]

I have a wired knock setup on my carb system. You might want to check them out for ideas:
Engine knock detection and indication for all vehicles (http://www.viatrack.ca/)

Regarding HUD, check out Microvision:
Microvision: Wearable Displays (http://www.microvision.com/wearable_displays/index.html)

[Evosol]

I have a wired knock setup on my carb system. You might want to check them out for ideas:
Engine knock detection and indication for all vehicles (http://www.viatrack.ca/)

Regarding HUD, check out Microvision:
Microvision: Wearable Displays (http://www.microvision.com/wearable_displays/index.html)

This is a decent link on current info on knock sensors here (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=DetonationDetection)

The resonant/non resonant KS will detect knock if its hammering away, but the problem is that they will not reliably differentiate between valve noise, piston slap, or other "noise." Well, i guess you could, but it might take some circuitry.

I think the anti knock devices currently available are great for permanent install where monitoring is wanted, but for actual tuning you might posibbly be getting into some persistent knock before the sensor is triggered... and given that some of the higher-end units have a sensivity adjustment, we run right back into the issue of other noise falsely triggering the KS.

Ive had great success with the DET can which uses the grey matter between your ears to differentiate between knock and noise. I think it might take a little inginuity, time, and some money to get this up and going. I'm sure you guys will be the first to know since i'll need some testers.


THanks for the HUD link! very interesting stuff.

[jdm_em1]

This is a decent link on current info on knock sensors here (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=DetonationDetection)

The resonant/non resonant KS will detect knock if its hammering away, but the problem is that they will not reliably differentiate between valve noise, piston slap, or other "noise." Well, i guess you could, but it might take some circuitry.

I think the anti knock devices currently available are great for permanent install where monitoring is wanted, but for actual tuning you might posibbly be getting into some persistent knock before the sensor is triggered... and given that some of the higher-end units have a sensivity adjustment, we run right back into the issue of other noise falsely triggering the KS.

Ive had great success with the DET can which uses the grey matter between your ears to differentiate between knock and noise. I think it might take a little inginuity, time, and some money to get this up and going. I'm sure you guys will be the first to know since i'll need some testers.


THanks for the HUD link! very interesting stuff.

Meng if yo could actually accomplish this that would be insane! Good luck, hope it works out!

[STEELHORSE1]

doesnt detenation happen before you can accualy hear it!!!

[Evosol]

yes and no. You probably won't hear much going at high rpms and open down pipe.

There are ways to pick up certaint frequencies right off the block.

[domesticated]

if someone was to go through that much trouble to make a wireless DET CAN, why not have a simple program that listens to the DET CAN and when you personally here the det for your own personal engine, you can tell the computer to listen in for that short range wave length alone and retard timing. that would prevent faulty retard from rocks or whatever making similar det noises

[trbo355]

You guys would have a blast playing with the knock sensors on newer GM stuff. They have 2 sensors in the lifter valley, actually know what cylinder is knocking and can be tuned to ignore whatever initial noise it hears until "true knock". They know which cyl. based off the crank trigger firing, which sensor heard the most intensity ( front or back ) to confirm it. With a Procharger bolted to the driver cylinder head, all their tunes take sensitivity out of the cylinders towards that corner of the engine to offset the noisy Procharger drive.

While its a cool feature to be able to tune out potentially false knock coming from one quadrant of the engine, my opinion is it only works perfectly in a silent cast piston stocker. As soon as you add forged pistons, nasty cams and thin tube headers, now the WHOLE motor is a noisy bastard and overall sensitivity has to be brought down. Can they truly hear real knock anymore?

[Northwest outlaw]

i know the 4.6 guy are doing dont ask me how but they have the same set up with the 2 in the old lifter valley.

[Jetblack]

I think it would only work perfectly in a one cylinder engine :)