Design Engineering/products

[BlackMagic]

As some of you know I have had this business for a while doing a little work here and there. I spent 4 years at WSU getting and engineering degree and now work in an aerospace composites manufacturing facility. Well, I am getting to the point that I want to start making this more than just a "weekend hobby".

I currently have designs done for some K-series Honda parts and have a B-series fuel rail prototype being machined. Soon I will have several popular sizes of machined V-band flanges and clamps.

At this point I need some help...

I need you guys to tell me what types of things you would want; what would you buy for your car? Throw out ideas that are car specific or universal. In addition to some of the typical metal items (plates, traction bars, strut bars, fuel rails, etc.) I am very interested in the composites market (engine and interior dress up, intake manifolds, intercooler piping, etc.) so keep that in mind when coming up with ideas This will still take some time, but the hardest part is breaking into the market...so help me out if you can.

Thanks is advance,

Reid
IMS Power Development

[Evosol]

I think there is a huge market in DIY scene. You should check out what some of the sponsors are offering on Homemadeturbo.com, Honda-tech.com, D-series.com, and some of those other sites. That should give you an idea what is already out there, and if there are areas to improve on.

There seems to be an ever growing need for tuning... and never enough tuners who know what the heck is going on with Vtekz.

good luck with your venture!

[Evosol]

how about an affordable dual walbro adapter. lol...

[Supra98]

i would like to see a solid strut bar for my s14... by "solid" i mean one piece no pivots on the ends.. kind of like the DC strut bar but in somethign lighter than steel.

[Ninja_Bear]

Reid, if you need any drafting skills let me know. Ive been patent drafting for the last 6 years, mostly mechanical stuff, but I know all about the patent route if you ever need to go that route. But I can confidently say CAD is an extension of my body.

[talntid]

Reid, if you need any drafting skills let me know. Ive been patent drafting for the last 6 years, mostly mechanical stuff, but I know all about the patent route if you ever need to go that route. But I can confidently say CAD is an extension of my body.

quoted for truth.

[Evosol]

I know you are a smart guy and have probably thought this through...

One problem i see as far as producing these bolt-on type products is that there are a million other substitutes, and thats not even really considering how many of the substitutes are cheaper in price because of competitors mass economies of scale.

Where the small guy is gonna really penatrate a market is by producing a slightly more specialized product, while not becoming to specialized that it increases costs and decreases market share.

Even the fuel rail idea, why would I want to buy an expensive fuel rail when I could buy a China made fuel rail, and it would get the job done just as well?
Or if I wanted to buy a nice quality fuel rail that was equaly asthetically pleasing, why should I buy yours when I can get AEM's cool looking anodized version, with the AEM brand name?

You know where i'm getting at...

I think your gonna have to toy with the concept...

[Jetblack]

Man the market on new Mustangs and Chargers and the upcoming Challenger/Camaro market are huge. Parts are new so they are all spendy and you can still make good bank before prices drop.

1. F'rinstance a drive shaft loop that bolts right in, for the '05+ Mustang is $150. Loop for anyone else's car? $60.

2. No one makes bolt-in ladder bars for the Mustang. They could wrap around the rear axle and bolt to the lower control arm mount.

3. Carbon fiber-based short shifters for the Mustang and whatever manual tranny ever goes in the Challenger and eventually Camaro.

4. The heaviest part of my CAI is the big, aluminum tube. It doesn't have to be that heavy although it does look pretty cool.

5. Buddy, if you can make lightweight axles that are really strong, I can think of a lot of guys who would love you. Heavy axles are like heavy drive shaft/wheels/flywheel. They suck, but while you can buy lightweight, strong, wheels/flywheel/driveshaft, I can't find any lightweight axles anywhere!

6. Lightweight, high strength anti-roll bars and a-arms are in need.

I would wager that if they cost 50-100% more than the stuff on the market now, they'd still sell fast.

Also, if I needed to have a production run of stuff made, could you do that for me? I am thinking threaded, spherical 2" aluminum shift knobs and an hourglass shaped jam nut, with 12x175mm threading. Maybe runs of 100 at a time, as needed?

[BlackMagic]

I know you are a smart guy and have probably thought this through...

One problem i see as far as producing these bolt-on type products is that there are a million other substitutes, and thats not even really considering how many of the substitutes are cheaper in price because of competitors mass economies of scale.

Where the small guy is gonna really penatrate a market is by producing a slightly more specialized product, while not becoming to specialized that it increases costs and decreases market share.

Even the fuel rail idea, why would I want to buy an expensive fuel rail when I could buy a China made fuel rail, and it would get the job done just as well?
Or if I wanted to buy a nice quality fuel rail that was equaly asthetically pleasing, why should I buy yours when I can get AEM's cool looking anodized version, with the AEM brand name?

You know where i'm getting at...

I think your gonna have to toy with the concept...


This is one of the biggest problems and why I need to find some way to break into the market. Companies in the states can't compete with smaller (cheaper) countries like China and India...I see it in the aerospace composites world all the time.

So why would you by my product over a chinese version?? I guess that is my challenge as an engineer and businessman. The fact is you may never buy my product, but someone will. Someone who believes that customer service and quality parts outweigh the price differential between my product and the cheaper brand.

So what about other name brand suppliers I will be in competition with...AEM, Competition Engineering, IPS, Skunk2?? I can say that each of these companies started with someone just like me who had an idea and took a chance. Look at the dates where any of these companies were established and I bet you would find that the dates are 10 to 15 years earlier that what you would have thought...why? Because it takes time, money, and breaking a few records to get the "name brand" desgination.

Anyway, I am not looking to build an empire here. I am looking for a "lifestyle" business that will provide for my family and let me do what I enjoy. It may not work out...and if not that would suck; I guess i'll just have to fall back on that $60-70K per year engineering job :)

[BlackMagic]

Brandon; Have you ever used any programs other than AutoCAD? AutoCAD is great for HVAC systems, but doesnt really serve any usefulness in the 3D solid modeling world. Maybe when things start to get going I could use some help if you would be interested in learing a solid model program like SolidWorks.

[BlackMagic]

i would like to see a solid strut bar for my s14... by "solid" i mean one piece no pivots on the ends.. kind of like the DC strut bar but in somethign lighter than steel.

Can you find me a picture of what is currently available and note what you would like to see changed?

[jzcobra]

I'd be happy to help if you need it I think it would be fun. Going to eastern for my MET and EE degrees. Haven't done solid works yet, but quite a bit with Inventor.

[Evosol]

So what about other name brand suppliers I will be in competition with...AEM, Competition Engineering, IPS, Skunk2?? I can say that each of these companies started with someone just like me who had an idea and took a chance. Look at the dates where any of these companies were established and I bet you would find that the dates are 10 to 15 years earlier that what you would have thought...why? Because it takes time, money, and breaking a few records to get the "name brand" desgination.


I think you have a great idea, but i'm just playing the devil's advocate...

I do think that times have changed with the scene... theres much more information available than there used to be... where car people are less reliant on pre assembled kits of sorts and what not. I don't know about other cars, but as far as Honda's go, there definately is a trend that is shifting towards DIY and DIY parts... whether it be EFI related or hardware.

As far as penetrating the market, my personal opinion is that its gonna be tough to compete in the bolt-on market since established companies already own such a large market share, and not to mention their mass scales of economies.

However, as I mentioned before, I do see a niche in the 'slightly-custom' parts and hardware. I always think about little guys like, TunerToys who cater to the DIY guys. They are very commited to customer satisfaction, which keeps people comming back.

Another group of people who Ive seen make a shit load of money are the turbo manifold builders on Honda-tech. WoW$$$$!!!

KaizenSpeed and his h22 balance shaft eliminators...



The list goes on... my only recomendation is to always keep a scribble pad with you when taking a shit... thats when the best ideas come. :)

[Evosol]

all i ever hear about now days is tuning... tuning... tuning...

become a local distributor of EFI hardware and offer tuning service. I think there is a lot of money to be made in the service side. The bar has been raised, people actually want to have their cars tuned now, and there are not enough people in our area who can do it right!

[BlackMagic]

all i ever hear about now days is tuning... tuning... tuning...

become a local distributor of EFI hardware and offer tuning service. I think there is a lot of money to be made in the service side. The bar has been raised, people actually want to have their cars tuned now, and there are not enough people in our area who can do it right!

Very true! The only problem is the capital required to start a service business. My vision for this business will be primarily a research and development facility, however, I plan to have a local service side as well. I can tune...but I will not take responsibility for tuning someone elses car on the street. I know that some people in this town feel that they can build the fastest cars on the planet while looking at their laptops driving down the freeway, but I won't do it...and $100,000 for a chassis dyno just isnt in the cards right now.

[Mr. Hoy]

I'll speak up on 240 guys behalf, there's a lot of simple things that you can make of quality for not a lot of money, where competitors of non-china made decent quality shit are capitalizing and I think there is potential for a medium in pricing while still getting quality. i.e.

Solid Motor Mounts and Tranny mounts for KA/SR/CA18:

Cusco Motormounts alone are $200, Kazama Motormounts $256 and some change, Nismo Motormount + Tranny Mount $185 and its not a very stiff mount, I'd rather go buy liquid nails construction grade urethane and fill my stock mounts with goo... which is in fact what I did until I just got some nicer mounts.

Rear Subframe Bushings S13/S14:

This is common for 240's to have these turn to complete shit, ask Josh (Supra 98) and once again aside from Ebay metal spacers. Quality spacer inserts are around $80-$90 for a few little pieces of metal, I'm sure they could be made fairly easily and inexpensively yet, higher quality than ebay shit. Full bushing replacements are $120+.

Intake Manifolds for SR20DET's:

These are limited, there's the GReddy Football intake mani $450+, then the knock off of FReddy intake mani with horrible shit casting $100-$150, then the Ebay "New Silvia Intake Mani" for $500ish. The highend JdMMMM brands that want $800+. Pretty much everybody runs GReddy intake mani's if they are running aftermarket.

How bout BMC Heat Shields, in Japan the BMC's sit on the driver side and the turbo sits on the japanese "Passenger Side," however here in the states, we all run our turbo's less than 2 inches from BMC's/lines etc. These are just coming into the market, but a few quick bends on some polished sheet metal would probably bring ya a few bucks as well.

As for test fitting, I've got extra SR intake mani's laying around as well as heads for portmatching, Josh has Solid subframe bushings, not sure if they're installed, and I picked up some solid motormounts you could look at as well as having factory mounts. As for the BMC Heat shields just google it, you'll find plenty of pics.

[Supra98]

http://www.nipponpower.com/~nippon/prod_imgs/img-976-1-large.jpg

note how the end can move... on this one...

and on this one its solid!
http://passwordjdm.com/images/Products/Password%20JDM%202%20Point%20Rear%20Strut%20Tower% 20Bar%20(DC%20EG%20EK)%20Large.jpg

there are few maybe even one ive only seen one solid one for my s14 but its made of steel...

i would buy one from you if you could make me a lighter solid one for the front and back....

and if you ever open a shop in town please hirer me!!! id do anything lol

and sorry in the links dont work im at work...

[Supra98]

yea i already installed my bushings.. they were $175 shipped and yea MOTOR MOUNTS! would be nice!

[BlackMagic]

Great stuff guys!! I saw a thread from a guy at fiber-tuned (they made a carbon intake for Honda H22) trying to get support for one for the SR20, but they wanted around $1200 for it. That seemed a little steep; I could probably build the same thing for $800-$900 and make money.

Would anyone be interested in carbor strut bars? The could be made with solid ends and, done correctly, be just as strong as the steel ones without the weight. I was looking into doing a foam core carbon strut bar prototype on a 92-95 civic...I guess I should pursue that maybe and see what happens.

[BlackMagic]

As far as mounts go...your looking for something 100% solid as a replacement for a factory mount?? No urethane or any other type of insert?

A solid aluminum mount using factory mounting positions should be fairly easy to design and build. Is this something you guys see alot of need for? Or just a few hard core guys?

[Supra98]

im looking for 100% solid on both motor and tranny mounts.. idk if there is a huge demand other than larry, me and a few other hardcore guys. But i would defiantly but the motor mounts if you made them....

Oh and as for the strut bar. i might like to see a solid one that also has a connecting to to the firewall.. you know the 3 point kind??? idk if there is a huge performance benifet to a 3 point one on an S chassie??

Oh and as for the carbon fiber.. i would love a front difuser that goes all the back to about the tranny. and a rear difuser that isnt over 1k and is fuctional! if thats even possibe for cheap.

[Ninja_Bear]

Solidworks & Inventor as well.

[Mr. Hoy]

As far as mounts go...your looking for something 100% solid as a replacement for a factory mount?? No urethane or any other type of insert?

A solid aluminum mount using factory mounting positions should be fairly easy to design and build. Is this something you guys see alot of need for? Or just a few hard core guys?

I just picked up Solid Metal mounts, I'm not sure of the type of metal since I got them used, but the dims on them are 2 1/2" long with a diameter of 1 1/2" then I believe its like a 10mm or 12mm bolt down the center. These will be very unforgiving and may even be too harsh for my daily driver, but I won't know til I put them in. It will be very high in vibration, just unsure of how high lol. Check this write up on diy mounts using Flexane. Then rattle your brain for a slighltly more refined mount:

Technical Articles: Make Your Own Motor Mounts - Here's How (http://www.nicoclub.com/articles.php?id=215490)

[Mr. Hoy]

double post

[BlackMagic]

I just picked up Solid Metal mounts, I'm not sure of the type of metal since I got them used, but the dims on them are 2 1/2" long with a diameter of 1 1/2" then I believe its like a 10mm or 12mm bolt down the center. These will be very unforgiving and may even be too harsh for my daily driver, but I won't know til I put them in. It will be very high in vibration, just unsure of how high lol. Check this write up on diy mounts using Flexane. Then rattle your brain for a slighltly more refined mount:

Technical Articles: Make Your Own Motor Mounts - Here's How (http://www.nicoclub.com/articles.php?id=215490)

Decent article, but that is a definete DIY job...would you be willing to pay $200-300 for a nice set of aluminum/urethane mounts similar to what HaSport builds for Hondas?

Does anyone have a set of stock mounts I could borrow to take some measurements from?

[Mr. Hoy]

Decent article, but that is a definete DIY job...would you be willing to pay $200-300 for a nice set of aluminum/urethane mounts similar to what HaSport builds for Hondas?

Does anyone have a set of stock mounts I could borrow to take some measurements from?

Let me dig through my pile of rubble, I've got 2-3 sets of stock mounts laying around. I'm not sure what exact design you have in mind for this in comparison to hasport mounts since 240sx MM are sandwiched between the block and the subframe, but here are pics of current designs in the $150-$250 range. Keep in mind that most S13 owners are cheap low budget with a few baller status among us and S14 guys usually have a little bit more money to toy with, but not always. I'd say your best market will be in the $150-$200.

Stock: http://www.bings.ca/files/engine%20mounts.jpg

Project Silvia: http://www.projectnissan.com/shopping/pc/catalog/projectsilvia/eng_Mount.jpg

JGY Customs: http://www.jgycustoms.com/240sx/images/jgymmkit.jpg

Nismo MM and Tranny Mount: http://www.garage-13.com/nismomts.jpg

Kazama: http://www.tougefactory.com/shop/images/408_th.jpg

JGS Tools:http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/mms.jpg

[HPI Performance]

i use so many of those t3/t4 oil reducers and the return line plates. Also the 5 bolt pattern exhaust flange. I use those on a regular basis. Please call me if your confused as to what i mean. also i would love to talk to you some time i have some ideas that im currently working on and someone with a cnc or manual/cad mill would be a huge asset and i would be willing to make it worth your time. Please stop by my shop or call.

Hpi Performance
509-270-2922
3915 E Francis A3 next to Daves muffler.

[94blueGSX]

I also agree that its hard to compete with mass-produced products. One thing that I think would be relatively easy and a nice touch for engine dress up is polished or chrome reservoir covers/caps or radiator brackets with respective emblems or designs. I had an Injen fuse cover that went for $75 online. it was polished. anyways, just a thought.

or yes, a dual walbro setup :)

[Supra98]

this is the kind of strut bar i want!

http://northwestnissans.com/gallery/files/9/1/9/5/p1010332_large__thumb.jpg (http://northwestnissans.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=537&c=)