$2000 budget for 2007

[96gsx]

well, set the old budget on the DSM for next year..??I didn't have one last year and ended up speding WAY to much on it.??So I limiting myself to $2000 this year.??Goal's are preaty simple next year.??High 11's.??I have ARP around here somewhere.??I'm going to give up on the Cometic HG, so I need to sell mine and find an OEM gasket (easy enough).??I'm mentally commited to the following crap.??I'll probably get most of it before the end of the year..

Arp's/OEM HG
3g lifters $100
fp2/Comp2 style cams $350ish
ACT 2600, stock flywheel R&R (better for AWD launches).. installed.??$670

Total = $1120ish

At the track that should let me run 25psi w/meth & 30psi w/racegas & meth.. Not sure about what I'm going to do with the $800 left over.??I was strongly considering spending it all on a Tein Basic coilover setup.??Or selling my 550cc's & meth injection system and buying a dirrect port nitrous kit with goodies and some larger injectors...??I'm leaning twords the suspension...????

[Kolat]

880's and wet naws...550's are'nt worth messing with....go big or go home :-)

T

[4STFED]

Do the suspension...Although its going to take more than 800 to do it right...Shit im already 800 into it and havent completed shoping yet :-)

[Greycobra_03]

Buy a mustang :)

[BlackMagic]

What is the weight of the car?

Id like to figure how much power your going to need to get into the 11's. You may be a little light on the fuel with 550cc injectors

[talntid]

Scott, I'll pick up those 550's from you to compliment my 2g MAF :)

Oh, and either sell the evo3 for $400, add $300 from the budget and go 50trim with some 880's or so, or get some nice suspension - suspension helps 1/4 mile times so much with these cars!

[a1320honda]

C'mon Scott, dont jump on the nitrous band wagon. Id second the motion to jump into a 50 trim. and also maybe a freshening up on that motor. 11's is a pretty big priority and without certainty that the motor can take it. You may be way more into it next year than 2g when you have to source a ton of new parts for a blown up motor. Also i dont know if youve eliminated your balance shafts or not but you could do that, and have the crank balance, with a good set of cams increasing your rpm limit to around 8 would allow you to utilize a 50 trim more at around 25-27ish lbs. that should land you somewhere in the 400-420hp range if you get in on some dyno time. which on a good safe tune should net you around an 11.8 in the neighborhood of 122mph

[96gsx]

Do the suspension...Although its going to take more than 800 to do it right...Shit im already 800 into it and havent completed shoping yet :-)


Tein Basics are only $699 on ebay...


What is the weight of the car?

Id like to figure how much power your going to need to get into the 11's.??You may be a little light on the fuel with 550cc injectors


On my 12.4 run I was at 79% IDC, 20psi, flowing 34lb/min airflow 15.4% meth-to-fuel mixture using 50meth/50h20 mix with a conservitive 11.5:1 AFR.??I havn't really put the pencil to the math yet but 100% meth injection through that m7 @ 90%IDC will net me around 35% meth fuel per cycle allowing me to act like I have around 15% larger injectors? 6.4/14.5*35. It will be close. 39lb/min airflow a5 11.5:1 AFR on 550cc, .76 fuel gravity weight (92oct) with my stock 43.5psi base fuel pressure nets 92% IDC before meth compensation, and thats a pretty realistic goal with 272 style cams at 25+ psi..


C'mon Scott, dont jump on the nitrous band wagon. Id second the motion to jump into a 50 trim. and also maybe a freshening up on that motor. 11's is a pretty big priority and without certainty that the motor can take it. You may be way more into it next year than 2g when you have to source a ton of new parts for a blown up motor. Also i dont know if youve eliminated your balance shafts or not but you could do that, and have the crank balance, with a good set of cams increasing your rpm limit to around 8 would allow you to utilize a 50 trim more at around 25-27ish lbs. that should land you somewhere in the 400-420hp range if you get in on some dyno time. which on a good safe tune should net you around an 11.8 in the neighborhood of 122mph


I just bought this evoIII16g.??It has like less then 1000 miles on it.??I would find that to be a waist of $$ to chuck it out for a 50 trim that flows only 6lb/min more airflow of this turbo.??I don't know if any of you had seen my Dsmlink log from my 12.4, but it is a horrable tune..??220deg coolant temps, 6-7deg raw knock, 20psi, 13deg timing advance, 11.5:1, zero'd timing sliders...??Doesn't make sence to get rid of this thing utill I max out the turbo (40-44lb) with 19+ advance timing...??Thats therodically 80+hp/tq from where I'm at...??

I'm keeping this motor stock asside for the cams/lifter. Their is no reasonable need to yank it out and go through it. It has 150psi compression, 1500 mile old timing belt/b-shat belt, pullies,tensioners and doesn't leak any fluids (asside from the input shaft seal on my 4bolt pumpkin.) The h20/meth injection is cleaning the intake/head/exhasust. No point..

[talntid]

I havn't even seen the log :P
I need to install the DSMlink viewer and check it out. Get a GT42R! :)

[97GSX]

Yeah....I myself would stay away from the nitrous until you have a lil more "beef" to your motor.... I would DEFINITELY lose those POS 550's FIRST THING!!! OMG! And if you're going through the trouble of taking off your head for HG, ARP studs, and lifters, you might as well replace the entire valve train... I like steve's idea of turning/polishing and balancing the crank... just a thought...

[96gsx]

If you're going through the trouble of taking off your head for HG, ARP studs, and lifters, you might as well replace the entire valve train... I like steve's idea of turning/polishing and balancing the crank... just a thought...


I don't need anything other then arp/hh/cams/lifters.??The stock sized valves and 2g running ports are just fine.. I could spend $800 easly with 2 week down time neting me maybe 1-2lb/min airflow increase.??I'm just not pussing enought airflow for that to be much on an issue...??Besides, whats the point of tearing into my 7bolt to pollish the crank.??If I were in their I would just buy a G4CS crank, some 1g rods and 6mm shorter weisco pistons and call it a day.. I don't want the downtime...

[talntid]

Scott I just got a great idea! You want the car to go faster, and have a $2000 budget! Simple! First mod is FREE!! Just sign the title over to me, and give me the $2000 cash to take that POS... and I'll make it go faster!! great idea, right?



Just kiddin' :P

[97GSX]

I wasn't referring to maximizing airflow....I just don't think your current stock 130,000 mile valve train and head will handle 8000rpms and nos...

[96gsx]

Well, maximising airflow is a whole diffrence can of worms.??Their is always somthing bigger/better.??It's compremising what you want with would you need.??Unless somthing happens I'm sticking with the 2g tb/intake/head with revised cams/lifters.??16g's just don't flow enough to cause enough of a gap in effenicy to rework the wheel on these 7bolts.??Besides.??8000rpm is asking for problems, even with NLTS, I'm keeping my rev limiter at 7500 and clutch cut at 7250..

[talntid]

good man. your car will last longer that way - don't thrash it! :)

[4STFED]

Do the suspension...Although its going to take more than 800 to do it right...Shit im already 800 into it and havent completed shoping yet :-)


Tein Basics are only $699 on ebay...



Bushings, sway bars, strut braces. Im going for the whole nine! I like the idea of coilovers but im very weary of cheapies - too afraid the sleve will crack/strip while autocrossing.

[96gsx]

diffrent setup's for diffrenct areas of performance.??My car is intended only to go as fast as possable in a strait line.??All I need to worry about is front/back weight transfor, and a little bit of CG height issues.??Aside from that a simple Tein basic kit will give me the 503 lbs in the fron & 335 lbs in the rear.??Perfect for me..

Consider the fact of how close the firewall is to the strut towers. The significant increase in handing will be had from the rear strut towers having a cross support. Just food for thought...

[97GSX]

I was referring to maximizing airflow....I just don't think your current stock 130,000 mile valve train and head will handle 8000rpms and nos...



******WASN'T

[4STFED]

diffrent setup's for diffrenct areas of performance.??My car is intended only to go as fast as possable in a strait line.??All I need to worry about is front/back weight transfor, and a little bit of CG height issues.??Aside from that a simple Tein basic kit will give me the 503 lbs in the fron & 335 lbs in the rear.??Perfect for me..??

Consider the fact of how close the firewall is to the strut towers.??The significant increase in handing will be had from the rear strut towers having a cross support.??Just food for thought...


Yeah Yeah...j/k

My 91 is getting old so my bushings need to be replaced anyway. Im not so concerned with my front strut bars but the lower sway bars in the front and espicially rear are on my checklist. Im just torn between the KYBs or KONIS. Ive decited im gunna go with the Eibach Proline (1in drop). Thoughts?

[96gsx]

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=170486
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=406200

[Kolat]

Seriously people knock nitrous too much without trying it, I knocked it till I had a bottle in my car it has LOTS of positives. Cooler intake charge for more detonation resistance, you get to modify the jetting so if your getting more boost on the bottle you can jet it a little higher fuel to compensate, it rocks!

T

[97GSX]

Yes...those are many of the pro's to using nitrous.....however anyone who has used it will tell you that it is extremely hard on your motor, and if you have not built it to withstand the all the wonderful pro's of using nitrous...you will soon learn many of the con's, very quickly...lol

[96gsx]

Getting way off topic here.??People have fucked their cars up on t-25.. It's impossable to tell how an engine is going to handle power.??Good compression, no intresting noises, sounds, vibrations, new hardware and the right know how is about all you can do.??I'm not a moron when it comes to nitrous.??It's a power agent, and a good one at that..??

Considering the fact you guys think I should go with a 50trim is kind of funny.??Those extra 6lb/min airflow is about the equivlent as a 35/50 shot...??I'm serriously considering it.. Starting off with a 35 jet.

[98spydert]

Don't go with the 50trim, that's lame. I love reading all of the terds on tuners who make 250whp on a 16G, then get a 50trm and make 300whp and think it's the cats ass. You and I will be near or over 400whp on that little tiny 16G lol. I'd spend ~300 and get the 1G head, intake mani, and tb since you've got the head off. If you feel like upgrading the valve train, I've got the tools (even though I'd pass until you do upgrade turbos). Maybe save the $800 for internals. What exhaust manifold are you running?

Have you tried running 24+ psi yet? Mine woudn't let me. It would spike to 26 or 28 then rest at 20-21psi. The external gate was my only fix, hopefully you don't need it.

[a1320honda]

Hey Scott, you know where that money would be well spent...Dyno time. thats the only plce you can really tune your car. Check out Pina motorsports' website, they have a deal worked out with Dyno Authority in Redmond WA to do tuning at $60 bucks an hour, and its an AWD dyno too. very nice place me and my roomate went over to check it out. Id be down to make the trip over with you with the video camera and star putin together a vid of your car.


Pina Motorsports (http://www.pinamotorsports.com/)

Dyno Authority (http://www.dynoauthority.com/)

[talntid]

That's a great idea! Or get a Viscous Coupler Eliminator and hit up the local dyno. You would want to research whether the trans could take that in FWD mode though.

[96gsx]

I'd just rather keep the 2g head/intake/tb. After picking up the parts and all the extra little crap, doing the machien shop thing it would cost me well over $500. I'm running a stock port matched 7cm 2g manny.

I havn't tried more then 21psi. It deff likes to creep though.. I turned it down to 13psi for the timing beeing. The VCE is a good idea... The gas alone going to Seattle would pay for it!

[a1320honda]

And im not knocking nitrous cause i havent tried it, ive been on the bottle before, but im telling you from experience, you get way more respect from people when you can make a car fast without using nitrous. Shep just made his 7.72@188mph pass w/o the giggle juice. thats why i dont beleive in it. I know i know im gonna piss some people off with this statement but....Any basic mechanic can put a bottle in a car and go fast. it doesnt take a rocket scientist to throw a 50 shot at a car and get good results. Im a big believer in tuning your way to your goal. And i think Scott...you have all the blocks in plae to achieve your goal without the aid of the juice.

[4STFED]

Any basic mechanic can put a bottle in a car and go fast. it doesnt take a rocket scientist to throw a 50 shot at a car and get good results.

Very true...lol

[94blueGSX]

I'm with you Scott, keepin what I got, but tryin to iron things out. I only plan on adding ARP's and getting the drive shaft replaced. Maybe some sway bars, but I'm not auto-crossin so I don't see a huge need there. Get the tunes straightened out and I'm good. I can't afford to blow the motor. It'll be parted out if I do most likely and probably make back what I paid for it anyways. down time isn't a huge deal for me cuz I got the ol reliable Grand Am to cruise around in if I need to. Gets way better mpg anyways.

[98spydert]

Yes...those are many of the pro's to using nitrous.....however anyone who has used it will tell you that it is extremely hard on your motor, and if you have not built it to withstand the all the wonderful pro's of using nitrous...you will soon learn many of the con's, very quickly...lol


Ok, I'll bite. How is nitrous harder on your engine than making the same hp with more boost alone? Assuming you know what you're doing with nitrous of course and assuming a good tune. Scott isn't one to just try something without researching and learning what he needs to know so stories of dumb shits throwing 200 dry shots on their civics and blowing them up don't apply here.

[rrussell]

Nitrous is not any worse on your engine then boost if you compare it apples to apples.

Reasons it gets a bad name...

Not running a high enough octane for the torque that it generates at lower rpm.

No timing retard. It will accelerate combustion and require less timing.

To much fuel causing an over rich condition that can cause detonation.huh:rolleyes:

Like a turbo it needs to be tuned and if you don't understand 4 cycle engine theory you won't begin to grasp how nitrous makes its power without destroying parts.

My best nitrous tune was on my stock 83 GTI with exhaust. I ran a 150shot on stock cast pistons. The car went from 16.8s@86mph to 13.4@104mph. The engine five years later is still running great.

[NIevo]

I guess I'll drag this one up from the grave.

If you are going to be running alky then your 550's should be good for over 400whp, as will the 16g. Im still running stock injectors and turbo without alky and have had no problems, best run to date is 11.68@119. I plan on adding alky this winter and running 27-28lbs of boost, should taper to 22-23psi at redline.

Also I dont think that an upgraded valvetrain is needed as the 16G doesnt flow well enough to be revving that high. Even with cams and all the bolt-ons I still shift at 7300-7400rpm.

I would vote for the suspension and the dynotime. I am hoping to get coilovers for mine this winter if I have some money left over.

[98spydert]

Why wouldn't the E316G flow well enough to rev that high? That makes no sense. If the boost level doesn't change, the airflow/rev the turbo is capable of isn't going to fluctuate much. The only thing that's going to deminish is the VE of the engine, and thats where the valve and head work comes into play.

[KryptoSol]

wouldn't plotting some points on a 16g comp map give you a good idea whats going on?

[NIevo]

Why wouldn't the E316G flow well enough to rev that high? That makes no sense. If the boost level doesn't change, the airflow/rev the turbo is capable of isn't going to fluctuate much. The only thing that's going to deminish is the VE of the engine, and thats where the valve and head work comes into play.


I know its like a beaten horse over on EvoM and Im not sure of all the flow data. Even the guys running 400+hp and full race motors still shift around 7500-7600rpm's and only shift later then that in 4th gear to try and keep from shifting into 5th. The turbo just runs out of steam.