SDS system

[KryptoSol]

SDS system, tell me your experiences...

Their web site isn't the most informative.

[talntid]

Brandy (987GST)'s car has SDS, and also I believe rrussell has experience with it. I have none.

[TurboNuts]

I have had it on my rabbit for 8 years or so and i love it its basic(simple) and dependable...8 years and replaced nothing on the system!! Do a google search for more info.

[94blueGSX]

reliable and simple. Able to support most racing applications. A good entry to mid-level management system.

[talntid]

BlackMagic has/had one for sale: http://www.spokanespeed.net/showthread.php?tid=610

[KryptoSol]

THanks for the info guys. I'm pretty sure my next project is gonna be sr20 powered so if i go that route its gonna have to get some sort of ems unit.

[BlackMagic]

Yeah I still have it for sale.??Its a complete 4F system and for a street car...VERY simple and easy to program.??I like the fact that the harness is completely self contained and thus limits time to find any wiring issues...unlike AEM.

The system is a little different than other units, but with an AFR gauge and some time the fuel maps are very easy to create.??Also everything is done with a handheld controller so there is no need to carry a laptop around to make quick adjustments.

I needed to replace the management on the race car simply because I needed more visual information, but if I dont sell the system I will be using it on the Festiva.

[talntid]

Festiva FTW :)

[KryptoSol]

Does SDS have ECT and IAT corection?



Blackmagic, just curious, How exactly does SDS engage vtec maps? This was one of my concerns when looking at other non traditional Honda fuel mangement, not that i'm switching from my ghetto-fabulous Rom Editor, but people ask me all the time about this stuff when shopping for Honda ems for their setups.

[BlackMagic]

Sorry, I didnt see this until just now.**

SDS has coolant and air temp correction, and if I remember right they are just based on a % correction of the main fuel map.

As far as vtec goes, I am pretty sure the newer versions have input and output channels that are able to control vtec, anti-lag, nitrous, etc.**My system didnt have much for auxillary controls, so I just used an MSD RPM activate switch to trigger vtec.**Using this, I was able to just modify the ramp on my main fuel map to match the vtec trigger.

[JLH]

The company that sells SDS is the same company that I got my stigger 4 unit from its suppose to be a good unit it replaces you ecu completely and uses all my stock sensers its got alot of options to**check it out...I guess if your doing something for a fuel managment anything works its just how easy and how much

[KryptoSol]

wassup josh,
yeah, chris has got the stinger on his 240 and he seems to be happy with it. If and when i move onto a 240 project i think i'd go with a Stinger unit.

But for my honda, i'll stick with ECU based fuel mangement.

[96gsx]

SDS is expensive.

[JLH]

But for my honda, i'll stick with ECU based fuel mangement.
[/quote]
Well I figured its worth a shot, no more hey man will you re chip my ECU and having to have the hassle of retunes
I like it cause later on down the road I can put it on something totally different...Oh and whatever happen with that 2.5 bar I bought and you have or had.....just curious if thats what worked for you and your setup...you should send me your phone # JLHDOHC@COMCAST.NET

[KryptoSol]

yeah, that 2.5bar worked great untill it got crushed in the engine bay. I'm running a 3bar map sensor now.

As far as the EMS unit, has the vtec engagement and individual fuel/ignition maps been addressed?

all that is required for the vtec solinoid to switch is 12volt output, which the EMS should have. Its just the fact that Honda maps have 4 individual maps, 2 fuel and 2 ignition. From what Kirk was showing me last year the EMS only has 1 map. I don't even think the EMS has auxilary maps that could be rigged as an alternative vtec fuel/ignition.

I suppose you could rig it like 'blackmagic' did with his SDS Honda application. The only thing is that you wouldn't have much control of spark in when vtac kicks in.

At the time Kirk had not used the EMS on a Honda so he wasn't able to answer my question. Anyone else know??

on another note though... The newly released NEPTUNE RTP looks to be the shizZ!

[BlackMagic]

The Stinger and 8860 EMS systems both have aux outputs that could be used to switch the vtec function, but why the need for added fuel and ignition maps?

Vtec can be tuned directly into your main fuel map, or you can just use a fuel enrichment modifier table and do it that way. Either way, vtec will be set at some given RPM...therefore it will always engage at that point and should be integrated into your main fuel map.

my .02

[KryptoSol]

hmmm... my whole reasoning is - since not only is Vtec RPM trigged but also TPS. You can actually ride above the vtec engagment point and not trigger it. (oem)

Also, my original question posted up on page one, what about ignition?? I know honda ECUs have two totally differ ignition maps for low and high cams. Theres anywhere from 5-8* difference between the two maps.

By having vtec triggered through RPM, wouldn't it be possible to run into a condition where you are in a low load situation while triggering vtec and running on high cam ignition?

EDIT: how does AEM work, do they also incorporate dual map?

The only standalone i could find that has dual map capabilities is Motec. But i guess since its just a drag car where it'll probably only see idle and WOT most of the time it probably won't matter. On a street car i would stick with Honda ECU based system, which vtec change over is load activated.

The thought of low load and high cam'd ignition on a single map makes me cringe.

[BlackMagic]

AEM and most of the other non-Honda based management units use a single main fuel and ignition table, but they all have additional modifier tables.**The aux inputs can be activated based on more than one of the given parameters.**Nitrous control, for example, can be set to activate only if the specified values for RPM, TPS, and load are met.**The same can be done for vtec and would eliminate the potential problem you described.

As far as seperate ignition timing for high cam lobe, I believe that you can add an ignition % adv/ret to the map upon vtec activation...but they may vary between engine management units.

[KryptoSol]

ohhhh i see.

that would make sense, 3 parameters to meet before engagement. cool.

EDIT:

actually you know... i still don't understand how it would work with just a single map because just because the vtec solinoid isn't triggered dosn't mean that you are not riding on the 'high cam' ignition. The vtec honda maps dedicated to high lobe. On a single map, it would be a nasty transition.

I'm sure AEM has got something to deal with this since so many people have used it on Hondas. can anyone with experience shed some light?

[JLH]

on another note though... The newly released NEPTUNE RTP looks to be the shizZ!
[/quote]

If that was last year then this is a new version chris has stigger3 and I recently got stigger4 its suppose to be more up to date. Meng as far as I am concern I trust you more then anyone else and if you would be willing to help me out, I will go with whatever. I need you to research for me and tell me your thoughts I want this car to perform the way it should for as much money I have in it..IT SHOULD DO WHAT I WANT
but I need a tunner's out look, MONEY IS NO OPTION after what I have been through with this car I am willing to wait another year to dump another 12 grand into it if I have to (LOL)

[KryptoSol]

My only hangup with the EMS stinger is that i can't find ANYONE who has used it on a Honda. Its a lot of money so i don't recomend you take the risk. There is Crome, Hondata, Neptune, and AEM. Motec looks killer too, but thats way... way... out of the price range, for me anyway. They have all been proven to support the power goals you're looking at as long as you get someone who is competent to tune it.

I can give you the resources but i'm not doing the tuning thing anymore, its not fun when i have to do it for cash, and secondly i'm busy with school so... no time. If i'm lucky then i might get to play with my car on the weekends. :)

Have you asked Russell to take a peak??? hes passed down some very useful information to me which tightened up my tuning skills 10 fold.

Personally, if its a race car... i would suggest you learn how to tune it. It sucks to have to wait on other people...

[JLH]

Well Its free to me it only cost me a paint job so I will see how it goes heard reid is running it on his hatch don't know for sure but I will find out.......but I will need a 3bar map if you could since I paid for the 2.5 bar and 2day air it for my car if possible I think that would be pretty fair.....

[BlackMagic]

Well Its free to me it only cost me a paint job so I will see how it goes heard reid is running it on his hatch don't know for sure but I will find out.......but I will need a 3bar map if you could since I paid for the 2.5 bar and 2day air it for my car if possible I think that would be pretty fair.....


Yeah, Ill be running it on the race car this season, but I wont be using the vtec functions. I have been playing around with the software quite a bit though and it looks promising.


actually you know... i still don't understand how it would work with just a single map because just because the vtec solinoid isn't triggered dosn't mean that you are not riding on the 'high cam' ignition. The vtec honda maps dedicated to high lobe. On a single map, it would be a nasty transition.

Thats the reason for the ignition modifier table that I mentioned earlier.

[KryptoSol]

Well Its free to me it only cost me a paint job so I will see how it goes heard reid is running it on his hatch don't know for sure but I will find out.......but I will need a 3bar map if you could since I paid for the 2.5 bar and 2day air it for my car if possible I think that would be pretty fair.....


what your kidding me right??
Yeah, just deduct it out of all the hours I put into tuning your car that one summer... If we want to look at it that way I think you still owe me.

Thats some F'n bullshit dude, don't even come at me with that crap!

You know what... go ahead and leave me your paypal address or mailing address and i'll send you the $16 that it cost for the sensor at the time. You can absorb the shipping costs. I'd just rather wash my hands clean of this BS. Seriously, one reason why i only tune my circle of friends. You go out of your way and people think you owe them something....

I'm gonna have to start charging if people want to pick my brain. ugh....

[BlackMagic]

Hey Meng, if you might be interested in the Stinger or 8860 unit we might be able to save a little money picking up a few of them. PM me if your interested

[KryptoSol]

No thanks, Crome is working quite well for me right now. I was thinking about going with the EMS if i got a 240, but that won't be happening anytime soon.

thanks though...

[JLH]

Sorry Meng didn't mean to come off as a asshole I only said something cause you offered to get another one I just wanted a 3bar its cool I will pay you whatever it is I owe you. Would you like one of my melted pistons as a payment that I can do..I thought we were clear on everything. I gave you some steelie wheels with tires to burn up and I also gave the map sensor so you could get things rolling, its cool I had a great time with the tunning but remember one thing I have 2 other people that where there everytime you tunned my car they heard everything we agreed on. I also understood what happens happens my car was a issue I know things were not right and I would never blame you on anything that went wrong with my car but as far as picking your brain never, not that smart on tunning wouldn't even try to be
Your a good guy Meng and i thank you for everything you did hope we can still be friends

[KryptoSol]

You're not indebted to me... I just found it distasteful that you would have the nerve to ask me about a $16 piece of equipment when i spent countless hours of my personal time on your car. Those sensors are fragile, unfortunately its a smashed up peice of rubble laying in a landfill right now.

and besides the fact that i heard numerous people "talk" about "it was you tuners fault," as far as your last motor... i never heard it from you personally. So as far as i'm concerned, its just "talk." I dont' have a prob you Josh, i just like to enjoy my hobby in peice and quite.

p.s. the price of 2.5bar map sensors have gone doubled since they where discovered by the Honda community, and 3bars are $75 with pigtails.

[TurboNuts]

Thats funny cuz all i hear in the wide world of the honda circles is Meng is a great guy!! i speak very highly of him when he is brought up in conversation and will continue to be also!!!