Check out the new hatch!!

[a1320honda]

The basics:

92 cx
b18c1 full swap with papers
full hasport mount and linkage kit
mugen sw36 steering wheel
spoon shift knob
j's racing intake
j's racing carbon fiber bumper vent
apr carbon fiber f-1 mirrors
spoon duckbill spoiler
carbon fiber hood unknown brand
15" rota circuit 8's
falken azenis tires
cheap coilovers
e.s. oval muffler with 2" exhaust

The guy i got the car from had the car put together about a year and a half ago. In that time he never changed the oil or any maintenance for that matter. so it was very dirty and had a pretty beat down look to it. I ran some seafoam through it changed the oil and plugs and did a compression test. Got 210 across the board. It does however smoke from worn valve giudes im assuming. Also had a very bad vibration in the front from 35pmh and up which i diagnosed as a worn axle. Put together a 92 integra axle and mid-shaft i had layin around in the garage and that took care of the vibration. Also had the blue vinyl seats in it which i quicky yanked out and threw in some dx grey cloth seats. The swap was done at Intec in Seattle which is a very reputable Honda shop. And thats where it sits now with lots and lots of cleaning.

The engine bay when i got it.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01255.jpg

And after
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01271.jpg

The rest of the car
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01265.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01257.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01261.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01262.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01263.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01264.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01266.jpg

[a1320honda]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01268.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01269.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01270.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01272.jpg

So what do you guys think?

[KryptoSol]

looks good! So you are saying its still in seattle area?

So did you read up and download Crome and get familiarized with the software? It uses the standard load vs RPM matrix, if your already comfortable with that you shouldn't have a prob.

[a1320honda]

No its home now. ive been workin on it the past couple of days. And also it getting right around 33-35mpg in the city right now.

Havent had time to download Crome yet. Been busy just tryin to get this thing cleaned up.

[Silver R/T]

not too bad for a honda, how much you got it for?

[NIevo]

Looks pretty good. Like all the little CF goodies.

Nice big blue intake BTW ;)

[a1320honda]

Piked it up for $3300 and Bryan also payed the $75 for the title transfer. On another site site ive been offered 5k for it so not too bad. But for now its not for sale.

[a1320honda]

Oh, and i was informed by a couple of guys on honda-tech that the lower rear tie bar is a Spoon piece as well.

[KryptoSol]

Spoon lower tie bar looks just like any other china made tie bar except the heim joints on the end have oiling nipples on them, but ive never understood why you would want to oil a non moving heim joint?

$3300, nice deal!

[4STFED]

Although im not into Hondas I must say that is one nice looking hatch. What does something like that weigh? 2700-2900lbs.?

[KryptoSol]

2700-2900lbs...haaah. try 2200-2300lbs depending what model trim. Its not uncommon for them to be put on a diet and tip the scales at sub 2000lbs.

[a1320honda]

Mine is right about 2100lbs w/o me. My talon with a slight weight reduction was 3010.

Got some more done to the hatch.

Before
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01267-1.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01275.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01274.jpg

Also did another DIY groundwire kit. Prolly kinda hard to see.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01276.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stubbysq/DSC01273.jpg

Next is to pull the carpet out and repaint the rest of the inside.

Thanks for all the positive comments guys.

[Turbo]

wow 3300 what a steal... pretty clean in the after pics... time for a wire tuck ;)

[94blueGSX]

good pick up. Looks like you're doin a fine job of cleanin it up. Some people are just pigs in their cars.

[mirage4g93]

looks good. That style is getting pretty popular cause there are 2 white 92-95 hatch that look a lot like that that are up around where i live. Not sure if you're one of them but still nice.

[mirage4g93]

Yeah you must be one of the hatch's that i see around my place all the time cause i saw you turn south today off onto rowan from francis. Do you live in that area?

[thursday]

wow, you got that for a steal for sure.



i see it has the "jdm" emblem in the engine bay

[a1320honda]

Yeah you must be one of the hatch's that i see around my place all the time cause i saw you turn south today off onto rowan from francis.**Do you live in that area?


Ya i live in the nine mile area.

[KryptoSol]

My buddy who now lives in D.C. called and said he just put down 322whp (dynojet) on a his stock block GSR @ 9psi w/ GT3076, ram Horn mani, 3" exhaust. yikes!

[a1320honda]

My buddy who now lives in D.C. called and said he just put down 322whp (dynojet) on a his stock block GSR @ 9psi w/ GT3076, ram Horn mani, 3" exhaust. yikes!



MAN oh man.....your makin my mouth water!!!!

Was it the gt3076r? i couldnt find just the 3076 on garrets site. Do you also know what a/r's hes running on the hot/cold side, is it an off the shelf turbo?

[mxturboracer86]

gt3076r is the turbo he's probably talkin bout and plus that would be the ball bearing turbo, nothing special, i would say for a great turbo go call up precision turbo

[KryptoSol]

Oh yeah... sorry, all GT30 varients are BB so i just assume everyone knows its "R."
I think the GT30 is an awsome turbo for street/strip build... if you can get over the money barrier. I believe my buddy is using the .63 housing.

My understanding is that Precision uses Garrett components, the only difference is that the compressor housing is made to Precision's specifications, which probably only consist of Precision's logo.

[mirage4g93]

Yeah you must be one of the hatch's that i see around my place all the time cause i saw you turn south today off onto rowan from francis.**Do you live in that area?


Ya i live in the nine mile area.


Yeah I see you around a lot on francis. usually in the 5 mile area. We seem to be next to each other going west at Maple most the time. Probably dont notice me cause nothin special about my car to make it stand out other than the bright ass yellow HIDs.

[mxturboracer86]

My understanding is that Precision uses Garrett components, the only difference is that the compressor housing is made to Precision's specifications, which probably only consist of Precision's logo.


precision actually makes some of the best turbos on the market, i kno that the quickest evo VIII in the US is using their turbos, and its for that reason that the specs, quality, and performance is bettter than most manfucatures out there

[KryptoSol]

Uh... Precision actually dosn't "make" turbos, they 'assemble' turbos made of Garrett components. You ever wonder why Precision turbos use the same "GT" line and denote their BB turbos with an "r" just like Garrett?? Its not coincidence.

The only real advantage i see when purchasing Precision turbos is that when you buy a "T" series turbo it comes standard with 360* thrust bearings, where as its an option for the Garrett counterpart, which come with the 270* thrust bearing.

just because the quickest EVO uses Precision turbo dosn't neccesarly mean that their turbos are "better than most manufacturers."

anyway... back to the original poster, for the money i really think the t3 60-1 would be killer on a b18, in addition to leaving you room to grow later.

[GetawayInMoscow]

saw this on honda-tech...didn't realize it was you

[a1320honda]

Ya im looking to get around 300 or so on the stock block for the first half of the season, and hopefuly before BOTI next year i can drop in my built gsr bottom end and make around 400. Thats the plan anyways. Id like to click off an 11.9 before the end of next year. And for about the past 4 years ive hit all my winter goals....so we'll see. But i definatly need a turbo thats good for now and good for later.

[GetawayInMoscow]

..SC61

[KryptoSol]

It looks like people are making gobs of power with the sc61, but i think the power would be insainly peaky. There might be a dozen or so turbo choices for the 400whp goal that would net more area under the curve.
EDIT:
I pulled this off HT, sc6152, 9psi, stock GSR... thats actually not bad at all!
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3458/resizewizard5xp7.jpg

So when can we expect to start shopping for turbos for you Milan??? Looks like you are gonna have some competition for 07. ;)

[GetawayInMoscow]

I know....the problem is that I think a B20 or making my GSR a 2.0 is also calling my name!!!

[KryptoSol]

I say choose the one that will net the most bang for the buck.

[a1320honda]

I think just for time being, im just gonna use a garrett t3/to4e 57trim, 60 on the hot and 63 on the cold. Ive got a good priced one lined up. Even, if its just to get some boost on the car for now. And for low boost im just gonna use a vafc and an fmu with some dsm 450's, until i can get a good grasp on some tuning.

[KryptoSol]

T3/t4 57trim will work just fine too. But one thing to remember is that the FMU is rising rate and will only add pressure within the fuel line in reference to boost. It does not have the ability to control the injectors or spark.

Best way to learn is to just read up everything you can on PGMFI.ORG and then jump right in. Just a warning, If you post on PGMFI.org, be prepared to study the material and ask intelligent questions. Its a community thats all about personal growth and reciprocating information, people looking to get spoon fed don't get responses. But once you actually get a rough map on your car with the 450s and running then you can get at me on how to tune out your transition, part throttle ect...

[GetawayInMoscow]

VAFC + FMU + Bigger Injectors = KABOOOOOOOOOM

I'm not trying to be an ass here, but this isn't 1998, get rid of the VAFC and FMU, nobody uses that crap anymore.

Since you already have (or will have) DSM 440's, now all you need is Crome (what me and Krypto are using) and a wideband. If you read a lot on PGMFI.org you will be able to make your own basemap. Another option is to buy a basemap from a big tuner and then you can just add/subtract fuel and timing off of what they give you.

Even though I would never suggest driving hard on a basemap, just know that even a pig rich basemap on Crome will probably still make you a lot of power over whatever you could do with a VAFC and FMU.

[KryptoSol]

VAFC + FMU + Bigger Injectors = KABOOOOOOOOOM

I'm not trying to be an ass here, but this isn't 1998, get rid of the VAFC and FMU, nobody uses that crap anymore.

Since you already have (or will have) DSM 440's, now all you need is Crome (what me and Krypto are using) and a wideband. If you read a lot on PGMFI.org you will be able to make your own basemap. Another option is to buy a basemap from a big tuner and then you can just add/subtract fuel and timing off of what they give you.

Even though I would never suggest driving hard on a basemap, just know that even a pig rich basemap on Crome will probably still make you a lot of power over whatever you could do with a VAFC and FMU.



Yeah... VAFCs aka "vtec controllers" LoL... Just in case you do use the VAFC, you'd get rid of the FMU and basicly just trim down the 450ccs at idle. Only prob is that since the VAFC manipulates actual map signal you'd be running more advanced ignition. Basicly it still lacks spark control.

I forgot, i'm not the only one here who uses Honda rom editors. GetawayfromMoscow is a good resource too.

Way back in the day i tryed to start a help thread for people who wanted to learn, use and contribute rom editor tuning info but i guess some people just looked at it as a joke.

If you guys want to start a Crome resource thread i'd be down to give any info ive picked up along the way.

[a1320honda]

I know the vafc hack and fmu are old school, but i helped two guys in Boise put together junkyard turbo kits using this method and got very good results. Thats just what i know right now. Thats the problem with most honda guys, you try to ask questions about this stuff and they treat you like garbage, whereass dsm guys are all open. I can call Jake Montgomery or John Shephard and they spend an hour and talk in great detail about setups and tuning. Thats why im already considering selling the hatch for another dsm.

[KryptoSol]

I know the vafc hack and fmu are old school, but i helped two guys in Boise put together junkyard turbo kits using this method and got very good results. Thats just what i know right now. Thats the problem with most honda guys, you try to ask questions about this stuff and they treat you like garbage, whereass dsm guys are all open. I can call Jake Montgomery or John Shephard and they spend an hour and talk in great detail about setups and tuning. Thats why im already considering selling the hatch for another dsm.


Well... sorry if i have come off as prick, but most of the time I just get really annoyed of people who are too lazy to help themselves, and want to be spoonfed. It gets old real quick! I'm willing to help anyone who wants to learn how to do it. And as far as the Honda community goes, i can't stand about 95% of them so i just kind of distance myself and do my own thing, so i can understand why you would get discouraged.


As far as the SAFC, it will work but it lacks the ability to accurately control fuel and spark.... thats all i'm trying to tell you buddy. After looking at Nissan's, i'm sooo thankful for the underground Honda fuel management communities... light years ahead of most! With that said, you got to learn how to use the software if you want to make powa.

[a1320honda]

I know the vafc hack and fmu are old school, but i helped two guys in Boise put together junkyard turbo kits using this method and got very good results. Thats just what i know right now. Thats the problem with most honda guys, you try to ask questions about this stuff and they treat you like garbage, whereass dsm guys are all open. I can call Jake Montgomery or John Shephard and they spend an hour and talk in great detail about setups and tuning. Thats why im already considering selling the hatch for another dsm.


Well... sorry if i have come off as prick, but most of the time I just get really annoyed of people who are too lazy to help themselves, and want to be spoonfed. It gets old real quick! I'm willing to help anyone who wants to learn how to do it. And as far as the Honda community goes, i can't stand about 95% of them so i just kind of distance myself and do my own thing, so i can understand why you would get discouraged.


As far as the SAFC, it will work but it lacks the ability to accurately control fuel and spark.... thats all i'm trying to tell you buddy. After looking at Nissan's, i'm sooo thankful for the underground Honda fuel management communities... light years ahead of most! With that said, you got to learn how to use the software if you want to make powa.


Oh no..i wasnt talking about you at all. Just the guys on honda-tech. Ive im'ed several guys on there about their setup and maps and they basicaly told me to get lost. Your one of the guys who has helped me.

[GetawayInMoscow]

PM mtber on Honda-Tech and ask him for a basemap. Or Xenocron (www.xenocron.com) on homemadeturbo.com and talk to him.

I agree the Honda community sucks for the most part, that's why you gotta do your own thing and not take anything anyone else says to heart.

[KryptoSol]

As far as a base map guys, it dosn't take much time to put one together. I'd even be willing to make a base map for you guys, but the time consuming part is dialing in your part throttle cells, ECT, IAT, and all that other stuff.

But yeah... like getawayinMoscow mentioned, you'll definately need a wideband and burner. Widebands are so cheap now days! I got my aem wideband gauge for $250shipped on HT.

Moates burner= $95

[talntid]

I also have a burner... should work for your honda stuff too

[GetawayInMoscow]

Personally I use a ROM emulator, that way I can change my settings whenever I want, although it's not like burning a chip is the most time consuming thing in the world either...

[mxturboracer86]

if u wanna go cheap standalone go megaspirt megaspark and you'll be able to do whatever u'd need to do.

[KryptoSol]

For the money, nothing beats Crome. FREE! and i'm told by people who have used Hondata that Crome's ECT/IAT modifyers work way better.

[GetawayInMoscow]

The only thing Hondata has on CROME is that I hear the S300 can do ignition cut too, which they are working on for CROME.

But like we said, CROME is free, so use it, because it seriously kicks a lot of ass. Megasquirt? That's for people who don't own Honda's! :)

[KryptoSol]

The only thing Hondata has on CROME is that I hear the S300 can do ignition cut too, which they are working on for CROME.

But like we said, CROME is free, so use it, because it seriously kicks a lot of ass. Megasquirt? That's for people who don't own Honda's! :)


If you are refering to rev limiter and 2 step,
As far as i know all Honda ECU based fuel management can only do fuel cut. Even Neptune can't do ignition cut. :( Oh... i remember now... there was some testing on ignition cut but i think everyone gave up b/c the HONDA ecu has no such function.

Now there is a "anti-lag" script for Crome that is under developement if thats what you where talking about.

[GetawayInMoscow]

Meng Neptune does do ignition cut, or am I thinking of turboedit? Either way one of them does it and so does the S300, I won't swear on my mom or anything but I'm 99% sure.

[KryptoSol]

yeah i'm not sure... I would consider the MSD unit a true ignition cut. You can hear it crackle and pop like crazy from the ignition thats being cut.

[talntid]

DSMLink has all of the above features! ;)

[KryptoSol]

How come the 2step that all the DSM's ive seen at the track sound like the honda's fuel cut 2step?

[talntid]

They don't. Ours have a turbo spooling sound, too! ;)

[a1320honda]

Not to break up the fun, but this isnt a dsm vs. honda debate.

[KryptoSol]

No, actually what i was asking was a real question. Ive never heard a non MSD 2/3 step equiped car make crackle and pop sounds when staging. The MSD unit randomly pulls ignition from each cylinder, i just wasn't sure if any OEM ecu was able to replicate that.

[98spydert]

Not sure, that's weird. Mine didn't make crackle and pop sound with the EPROM stutter and doesn't now with DSMLink stutter.

[GetawayInMoscow]

Whatever all the MKIV Supras use for ignition cut is easily the sexiest thing in the entire world.

[JLH]

I LIKED IT AND I EVEN GOT TO DRIVE IT (LOL) ITS A WHOLE LOT BETTER THEN THE OLD SINGLE D15B I HAVE IN THE 4 DR..

[a1320honda]

I LIKED IT AND I EVEN GOT TO DRIVE IT (LOL) ITS A WHOLE LOT BETTER THEN THE OLD SINGLE D15B I HAVE IN THE 4 DR..


LOL, you want it huh?

[JLH]

Well I guess not having the coupe running it almost made me feel right at home again besides it being a hatch and hella slower then the coupe. But slammin deal can't wait to drive turboed :D

[a1320honda]

Well I guess not having the coupe running it almost made me feel right at home again besides it being a hatch and hella slower then the coupe. But slammin deal can't wait to drive turboed :D


Fo sho....You are more than welcome to drive the hatch once its boosted Josh. You know....just to let me know what you think, LMAO!

[JLH]

OH I will let you test out the white car as soon as she's done and then we can test it out side by side action :D

[a1320honda]

OH I will let you test out the white car as soon as she's done and then we can test it out side by side action :D


Now you know thats not gonna be fair. Ill grab 2nd and you roll in 5th.

[JLH]

Well maybe third gear no mine will be the weekend worrier and your will be the friday night smasher...

[a1320honda]

So i came up with the idea that im gonna try to dump the wategate and exhaust out the drivers side front bumper. Pretty much this is turnin into a drag car. Locating an odyssey batter in the pass. side front bumper, relieving the car of its heater system. Need to get a cage and lexan windows. Goal is for an 11.95 making only 350hp. Not entirely impossible. I feel as though broken axles are goin to be a common thing.

[KryptoSol]

In all honesty, please keep it streetable, dumping the glass and heater system isn't that much of a weight savings on a turbo'd Honda. And especially for only 350 HP, if you where talking 500+whp then i'd understand b/c then you can justify caging it, dropping the weight, dropping lots of money.

350whp should be able to get 2400lbs into 11s no prob.

I would focus more on traction, even at just 320whp and with lsd + DRs, traction is a much bigger issue than weight, even in my little piggy.

I would just start saving for...
LSD (it'll keep you from breaking diffs)
Drag Radials or Slicks
Suspension
Clutch

[a1320honda]

In all honesty, please keep it streetable, dumping the glass and heater system isn't that much of a weight savings on a turbo'd Honda. And especially for only 350 HP, if you where talking 500+whp then i'd understand b/c then you can justify caging it, dropping the weight, dropping lots of money.

350whp should be able to get 2400lbs into 11s no prob.

I would focus more on traction, even at just 320whp and with lsd + DRs, traction is a much bigger issue than weight, even in my little piggy.

I would just start saving for...
LSD (it'll keep you from breaking diffs)
Drag Radials or Slicks
Suspension
Clutch


Ya, i understand what your saying. Im just sure that if i were to keep it, maybe not this year, but next race season it will almost surely turn into drag car so i might as well get the basics out of the way. I will prolly move the battery to the front bumper so there is a little extra weight over the front wheels, and prolly gonna dump the exhaust and wastegate out the front bumper. ive talked to a couple of guys and they say it isnt that bad. Especially if i can find a small resonatator to put inline. And ya imlooking into some 26" slicks, less guys are breaking axles with slicks than dr's.

[JLH]

Well I went ahead and did the cage and ditch the heater system (summer time car only) and I am running 24.5 inch tall slicks on 13x8 bogart wheels I have feeling I will be switching to 26inch tall slicks as far as axles I will be getting stage 5 axles and hubs from driveshaft and I already purchased a inter- shaft on driverside is chromoly so I think as far as my diff goes going quaife and exedy twin disc clutch the cage came out awsome its amazing how stiff the chassy is now its a 8 point and a bitch to get in and out with out steering wheel removed the motor is a 2.1 now and I am hoping to run in the 10s at some point this year (2007)
I am going to start painting the cage since I have time still trying to find out what turbo I wanna run this may sound funny to some people I would like to be able to drive it on street every once and a while..I am going to throw the old turbo on my 4dr with gsr swap and paint it...

[KryptoSol]

I had some Napa axles that lasted all season last year. :) They broke at the last even because i brought out my DRs plus they prepped the track pretty good with VHT... 6000rpms off the 2step... lol... My car moved like 2" off the line.

My car was hopping bad during time trials, that usually kills the axles... so i had a feeling it was gonna happen. Thanks to JJ for helping me out!

You won't get any hop with slicks, although 26" might be just a tad over kill. Thats what pro class guys are running.

[JLH]

yeah I thought maybe those 13x9 24.5 tall look awsome on the car will see how it goes you should come out and check it out stranger

[KryptoSol]

yeah I thought maybe those 13x9 24.5 tall look awsome on the car will see how it goes you should come out and check it out stranger


I'm a hermit dude, i stay home and read books on Day Trading strategies on the internet and visit honda web forums.

[JLH]

Come on man Life is short live a little can't Meng come out and play...:D

[KryptoSol]

Come on man Life is short live a little can't Meng come out and play...:D


haah... yeah, thats the thing, i played my ass off... now its time to "grow up," whatever that means...

[AllMotord15]

Nice little car you got there... High 11's with 350+hp is very doable.... If you are thinking about replacing the glass for lexan, you may just want to leave the windshield in. Much less of a hassle and alot easier to see out of. Lexan scrathes too easy.
Good luck with your new project,
Don

[a1320honda]

Nice little car you got there... High 11's with 350+hp is very doable.... If you are thinking about replacing the glass for lexan, you may just want to leave the windshield in. Much less of a hassle and alot easier to see out of. Lexan scrathes too easy.
Good luck with your new project,
Don


Ya the lexan thing prolly wont happen for a while. Thanks for the comments. Now i gotta replace the fender cause of some high-school girl not paying attention while driving through a parking lot and hitting the drivers side front fender at about 5mph. Thank god she has insurance and all of that good stuff.

[GetawayInMoscow]

There is a guy on Honda-Tech who ran 11.8 @ a lot of MPH with a full interior EG hatch.

B16, stock DRAG kit (down to the FMU) at 10 psi, slicks.

I can't guarantee it, but I'm willing to bet if you gut the hell out of your hatch you are going to regret it. If you do decide to gut it and cage it, shoot for a way better goal than 11.95. There are American cars out there that can run that with their A/C on :)