Wanted: DSM mechanic

[94blueGSX]

Me and Eric gave it an honest go. The car ran like it should for less than an hour before reverting back to its sputtering/smoking ways. I'm confused and frustrated. Thinking it is a sensor going bad from the stand alone unit. I tried to call Jason at F2uning, he installed the stand alone computer, but no call back yet. He has family issues he's dealing with so I don't know how long before he can work on it or get back to me. Ordered a wide-band sensor as well. The car shakes when it starts to boost and the idle/exhaust sounds is that of like a Subaru, not good. Truly confusing. Started to run rich over a month ago but still very driveable. It is hardly driveable now and shoots black smoke all the time. PM me with anybody local that can work on it. Like I said, hardly driveable at this time. It took over a 1/4 of a tank to get it home from Deer park on Saturday.

[a1320honda]

So im not good enough anymore?:)

[94blueGSX]

Checkin interest for anyone interested. Apparently YOU are:)

Its yours for the taking if you think you can handle it. I'm wondering about the stand alone.

[94blueGSX]

thats what I thought, no takers.

[talntid]

lol. Jamie's car is possessed by the Devil himself. Nobody wants a piece of that.

[rrussell]

Have you logged any runs? Does Redline log?

Do you know what the duty-cycle is when it goes into boost?

What size injectors?

Whats the fuel pressure?

[talntid]

russ, the car runs GREAT sometimes, and other times, it will barely idle. It is completely sporatic. Yes, redline logs.

[94blueGSX]

Have you logged any runs? Does Redline log?

Do you know what the duty-cycle is when it goes into boost?

What size injectors?

Whats the fuel pressure?


Here's what I can tell you. 660 injectors. i don't have a fuel pressure gauge and all I see on Redline is injector pulse width and enrichment. Where it stands it is not boosting at all enough to even run a log, but it does, however I have been unsuccessful in the format when I try to save the graph. Redline is recongnizing a RICH condition for its A/F ratio (no shit), I just don't know what is causing it. Its dumping fuel, I nearly died when i started it up. I'm not familiar enough with the numbers on Redline to know what is an obvious sign to what may cause the problem. All else I see are the regular coolant, air, manifold, temps and pressure. When it idles it just sounds like its drowning...

[rrussell]

What i would do is log it when it runs good and also when it runs bad.

Then you can check the duty cycle or pulse width and check them to the good run verse the bad run.

On the logs turn on the duty cycle, IAT, MAP, RPM, CTS or they might all be on anyways. I'm not familiar with Redline.

What you will be looking for is the duty-cycle or Pulse width to change. In this case its increasing. Then you can look at the IAT and MAP values have change with it.

Example: the IAT will show all of sudden when the engine stars running rough it will show a major drop in temps. But reality you know that the temps are the same or warmer. Bad IAT sensor

Example: the map might show a major increase in pressure but in reality it should be the same as the log when the engine wasn't acting up. Bad MAP sensor

CTS Same as above^

Most systems now have an diagnostic senor check in the system. Once again I'm not familiar with Redline.

You guys might have done this already. I thought I would just drop my 2 cents worth.

Good Luck!;)

[gregc]

First thing I would do is put a fuel pressure gauge on it. It isn't uncomon for a fpr to act in the exact manner that would describe your situation.

[talntid]

Yeah, he does have a bone stock FPR, which is something I thought about, but sometimes the car just runs like a dream.

As Steve mentioned in a phone call, I wonder if the Redline CTS has dirt on it's "eye". It's worth a check.

rrussell, when the car is running bad, it is running REALLY bad. It is not even drivable enough to go WOT for a log. What do you recommend? The car just dumps black smoke like a modified Diesel truck.

[96gsx]

Wouldn't hurt to take the injectors out and have them cleaned & checked.. If it were my car, I would buy an Aeromotive 13109 and gauge just to be certin..

[rrussell]

Whats the pulse width at idle? Whats the map reading at idle?

You should be able to read the CST and IAT without the car running.

What are the readings on the CST and IAT sensors?

[94blueGSX]

sorry, was just able to login and respond. As Eric said, not able as of now to even log a good run to compare one from the other. Would have been nice when it was runnin good on Saturday. will be able to post readings when I get off work. I had them written down last night, but will check again. Maybe me and eric will swap the plugs again, run and save, and see the difference in logs before it goes totally bad like it sits now. I will call Jason again too to find the type of file I am supposed to save the log.

Edit:talked to Jason. He gave me some ideas. After talking to him it may be the O2 sensor that is bad or the vaccuum line into Redline (which I think we checked already).I also know how to save and view the logs. i will look when I get home. he said an EGO correction of 1.0 is no correction. This is where I was looking last night as it was the only reading not changing. If not he offered to come and check it out which would be nice anyways. I'm keepin my fingers crossed.

[gregc]

Just to re-iterate... CHECK THE FPR! I would bet $$ that once you get a gauge hooked up, and it starts to run like shit (barely idle let alone run), you will see the fuel pressure pegged up at 90 or higher. The EXACT same thing happened to me and for a month of it, I kept thinking: yeah, it could be the FPR, but I should check this other stuff first because going to buy a gauge and hook it up is more of a pain than getting the injectors cleaned (which it really wasn't but I thought it couldn't be the FPR because of the sporadic behavior). Once I got the gauge hooked up, I had my answer and after putting on a new FPR, I was fine.

Some things to thing about:
- If it is fuel injectors, it will run like crap all the time.
- If it is an O2 sensor, it will run rich (not really crappy) all the time. Go disconnect the O2 sensor plug off of a good running car. It doesn't run as shitty as a car with twice the fuel pressure it needs.
- A vacuum line will cause it to run lean not to mention it will not be sporadic.
- Computers very rarely fail then come back to life and run fine.

Check the FPR. It takes only a few minutes, is cheap, and will at least eliminate it as a culprit.

[94blueGSX]

If I had something to check with, I would:) Saturday is the next time I will really have time to check it out. Perhaps something to pick up before then. thanks.

Edit: car didn't start to even take some readings. I need to swap the plugs again.boo.

[talntid]

Someone around here have a 1g stock FPR laying around?

[94blueGSX]

gregc put $$ on it. Any takers? :) be nice to get an extra FPR by Saturday. Will look for a gauge though today.

[rrussell]

gregc put $$ on it. Any takers? :) be nice to get an extra FPR by Saturday. Will look for a gauge though today.


I would agree thats the first thing to look at. I thought you guys already knew what fuel pressure it was. Thats what I wrote in my first post.;)

I have a stock regulator you can have to see whats up. Anything to help another DSM bro.

[94blueGSX]

Cool, you got PM. We'll end this now til the update on Saturday.

Well. Changed out the FPR with no major issues thanks to rrussell. Tried to start with no luck. Spark, compression, fuel, all look good. Plugs black and wet. Changed, again...fired up. Eric and I proceeded to have some much needed driving fun in the snow for a short while. Have a feeling the plugs will fowl again, but we'll see. Still seems rich.

[a1320honda]

Are you guys workin on it on Saturday? If so, ill come take a look if youde like.

[talntid]

Jeeze, Jamie. You didn't even mention that we now know that the noise it was making was reproduced by shutting off 1 or more injectors. ;) We're much closer to getting this under control. It's just still running rich.

[rrussell]

So the regulator didn't fix it?

[talntid]

We don't know, rrussell, after swapping the regulator, it didn't do the symptoms, but it's probably just a matter of time.

Steve, to my knowledge, we're not working on it today. I dunno. It ran fine last night.

[a1320honda]

Jeeze, Jamie. You didn't even mention that we now know that the noise it was making was reproduced by shutting off 1 or more injectors. ;) We're much closer to getting this under control. It's just still running rich.



When i worked on it last, it was still running pig fucking rich. get that wideband put in and see what its really doin. If need be, pull some fuel back on the redline.

[Kolat]

what are you running for ignition? try swapping out coil packs possibly. I have a 90 coil pack laying around somewhere but I can't remember if they can be modified to be used on a 91+ or not.

T

[gregc]

We don't know, rrussell, after swapping the regulator, it didn't do the symptoms, but it's probably just a matter of time.


Haha... that is kinda funny.

I'm thinking the sympoms are going to be staying away.

-Greg

[talntid]

Well after swapping the regulator, the car wouldn't start - we swapped plugs and it worked fine. Now before, when we swapped plugs, it always worked fine for a week or so...

But the noise it makes when it is not running right is the EXACT same noise as when I disable a single or 2 injectors.... so that's where we'll be looking when/if it happens again

[Kolat]

look at ignition.....I'm guessing weak spark, maybe even something as simple as bad grounding.

T

[98spydert]

I've got a couple 1G coils. They test good if you decide it might be a coil.

[98spydert]

Oh, and have you swapped plug wires lately? I had the same issue and thought it couldn't be my plug wires with only a few thousand miles on them. WRONG. I even had a set of Magnicores go out at ~6k miles. I thought they'd last longer than that for $80.

[Kolat]

spark related, when I got my 90 back in the day I jewed the car dealer down a ton because it did the same thing under boost, bp7es's fixed it right away. But definently look at ignition issues.

T

[talntid]

when/if the symptoms come back, we'll see.. otherwise.... some of you might want to get bigger turbo's :)

[Kolat]

it's not the size of your turbo, it's how you use it.

T

[rrussell]

when/if the symptoms come back, we'll see.. otherwise.... some of you might want to get bigger turbo's :)


Sounds like it might be fixed. Good news, keep us informed on how it goes.:)

[gregc]

How did the plugs look? Any one look a ton worse than the others? If so, might want to swap out the wires too.

[94blueGSX]

Just checkin in.flu got me bad. Been down since Saturday night. Sucks. Did manage to drive the car a lot yesterday. Started up and ran good. no stutters. seems to still be runnin pig-rich as Steve said. I think I drove around 50 miles. I also decided to put 87 instead of 92 in the tank and it runs well. Not sure if this is a great idea, but I thought it would be worth a try. Pulls just as hard and smooth still at 18psi. Waiting on the wideband to get here and also to see if the same issues arise after a week so i'm not changing anything right now. Honestly, spark looks good. At least on the 2 plugs we pulled. We really are narrowing it down. Wires and plugs have been swapped and are good. Coil pack is about the only thing left as far as ignition goes. is there a way to test it before changing it out? Thanks for all the help, especially Eric. Steve, we'll have you over the next go around which could be more sooner than later. We will definately keep everyone informed.

[a1320honda]

How about making the same power at 12psi and weighing 800lbs less?

Ok, so ill get beat up out of the hole, but.....Ill real ya in.

[94blueGSX]

You can reel all you want, you may need a 1/2 mile track though...

[a1320honda]

You can reel all you want, you may need a 1/2 mile track though...


lol, just givin ya shit man

[94blueGSX]

You can reel all you want, you may need a 1/2 mile track though...


lol, just givin ya shit man


lol.ditto buddy.

[94blueGSX]

Day 4 and it has started to smell and sputter once again. So on to the next idea I guess. Coil packs? Install the wideband? not sure. Wideband I imagine will take a good couple hours. I need to figure out where all the wires tap into and the rest is straight forward.

[a1320honda]

Day 4 and it has started to smell and sputter once again. So on to the next idea I guess. Coil packs? Install the wideband? not sure. Wideband I imagine will take a good couple hours. I need to figure out where all the wires tap into and the rest is straight forward.


Are you gonna use the wideband for datalogging in redline, or just a standalone monitor? Either way, i wouldnt try to use the wideband as a wide and narrow setup (replacing your stock O2) and would go to a muffler shop and have them weld in another bung for the wideand.

As far as coilpacks, ive never heard of a coilpack gradualy lose spark, they either work or thet dont. Every one that ive dealt with that has gone bad just stops working. I would also look into aeromotive fuel pressure regulator.

[94blueGSX]

Thought about a different FPR. Lookin into that. I'm reaching Steve, the coilpacks are the last of the ignition components not changed really. I was reading on the Wideband and probably will just use it as a monitor. I do believe I can build it into Redline though as a secondary AUX input and datalog. Need to talk to Jason on that. The muffler shop is right down the road and was planning on having them do it. The wiring is the only thing in question really. Wanna get together Saturday?

[rrussell]

What wideband did you get?

How are your grounds? It weird that it comes and goes.

[talntid]

Jamie, I can almost guarantee it is not the coil pack. Those sparks were bright as hell. As stated before, plan 2. Start the car, disable one injector at a time - each one should make a difference - whatever one doesn't will be where we look first.

[a1320honda]

Thought about a different FPR. Lookin into that. I'm reaching Steve, the coilpacks are the last of the ignition components not changed really. I was reading on the Wideband and probably will just use it as a monitor. I do believe I can build it into Redline though as a secondary AUX input and datalog. Need to talk to Jason on that. The muffler shop is right down the road and was planning on having them do it. The wiring is the only thing in question really. Wanna get together Saturday?


ya, ill give ya a hand on saturday

[gregc]

What do the spark plugs look like? All the same? This short of time, they should all look like new with a very very light tan color to them.

-Greg

[talntid]

They are all black and wet. Guaranteed.

[gregc]

If they are ALL black and wet, then the problem is not an individual cylinder issue (fuel injector or coil pack).

Ever get a fuel pressure gauge put on it?

[talntid]

No Fuel Press gauge on it.. Jamie has been thinking about getting one. As far as I am concerned, an Aeromotive FPR & Gauge is the only supporting mod he is missing. We'll be looking at it on Saturday.

[94blueGSX]

Swapped with a used, stock FPR, so it has been changed.

[98spydert]

The wideband install is simple, don't get a shop to do it. I think it took me 15 minutes.

[talntid]

yeah :) i'll be doing it

[94blueGSX]

It looks straight forward, I know. Just need the wiring info for the RS-232 port pretty much.

[a1320honda]

i just picked up a plx-m300. id like to put it in also just to compare accurace of wb02's.

[98spydert]

I've got the same one steve, you'll like it. I think scott has it too.

[96gsx]

yup